Community Chat

[KittyLouSoutenu]

On 3/31/2015 beammeupscottie said:

On 3/31/2015 KittyLouSoutenu said:

On 3/31/2015 beammeupscottie said:

On 3/31/2015 KittyLouSoutenu said:

On 3/31/2015 JuJu Squeezie said:

I believe people can behave in an "evil" way. I don't know if I believe that "Evil" is an entity all to itself.

More like a verb than a noun for me.

I agree.

I don't think that Evil is a force unto itself just waiting to take over people's actions.

That is sort of the Hollywood version. Hey, Kitty, did you ever see "Fallen"? SHIVER!!! LOL. That was one scary movie!

(This isn't a slam...hard to tell I know on the boards!)

Anyway, I'm always interested in your take on things.

Some (lots!) of people subscribe to the Hollywood version. Or so it seems to me.

No, I've never seen "Fallen". I'll have to look for it!

It's a movie about "evil" as a force that jumps from person to person. It can go via a "touch" or just jumping. Denzel Washington and John Goodman are fantastic in it. A real "neck tickler"!

I'd watch Denzel read the phone book.

*swooooooooon*

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/31/2015 beammeupscottie said:

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/31/2015 JuJu Squeezie said:

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist." ~ Charles Baudelaire

Considering the Devil's reported over inflated and self centered ego, Charles Baudelaire may have a good reason to be enjoying his quote.

You are describing an egotist.

Egotism -- is the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself, and generally features an inflated opinion of one's personal features and importance. The egotist has an overwhelming sense of the centrality of the 'Me', that is to say of their personal qualities. Egotists have a strong tendency to talk about themselves in a self-promoting fashion, and they may well be arrogant and boastful with a grandiose sense of their own importance. [Wikipedia]

I feel that an egotist is the opposite what the quote describes. If we have convinced ourselves that Satan is the figment of someone's overactive imagination [a guy in a red suit with horns, a tail and a little pitchfork] we have taken all his power away and left him impotent to wreak havoc in the world. He is then no longer evil; he's merely a fanciful story in a very old book.

For a powerful spiritual being to allow himself to be denigrated by human beings to the point of becoming farcical, indicates to me that he knows that he wields more power by being able to sneak around, inculcating himself into the hearts and minds of the unsuspecting people of this world. He gains power and dominance by [supposed] invisibility and guile.

That's not a egotist, someone who is saying, "Me, me, me!" and "Look at me!" and "Look what I did! Am I not special? Am I not wonderful?"

Instead, he's sitting in a dark place, all alone, rubbing his hands together with glee, laughing at the gullibility of the human race.

That's what I think the quote means.

I want to highlight this portion of your post suiGeneris:

If we have convinced ourselves that Satan is the figment of someone's overactive imagination [a guy in a red suit with horns, a tail and a little pitchfork] we have taken all his power away and left him impotent to wreak havoc in the world. He is then no longer evil; he's merely a fanciful story in a very old book.

I believe that this is the point made also by C.S. Lewis. Have you read Screwtape Letters?

Yes, I have. Years ago! I suppose the core theme of the book stayed in my subconscious all this time.

[Wormwood gave me the creeps!]

ETA: I looked up what C.S. Lewis said:

“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors, and hail a materialist or magician with the same delight” (C.S. Lewis. The Screwtape Letter. 1941, p. 3).

Explanation from another source:

This is certainly true about Satan. Some people totally dismiss him as an impersonal force or somebody in a red suit with a pitchfork. On the other end of the spectrum, many people attribute too much power and importance to Lucifer.

[SuiGeneris]

beammeupscottie,

If you ever have the opportunity, I would recommend attending a stage performance of The Screwtape Letters. My late husband and I attended such a performance at a local university, approximately five years ago. It was excellent!

Here's a youtube link to a small portion of the performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdBNimP7eaw

Max Mclean is the star [Uncle Screwtape] and the only speaker in the show.

Wikipedia: McLean conceived, adapted, produced and starred in The Screwtape Letters, a play based on the book by Oxford scholar, author and fantasy writer C.S. Lewis. McLean also is the narrator of The Listener’s Bible.

My husband and I bought our son The Listener's Bible, narrated by Max McLean, when he was going to seminary. He listened to the CD's every day on his hour-long drive to school. He loved listening to Max McLean's booming voice.

[scotttie]

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

beammeupscottie,

If you ever have the opportunity, I would recommend attending a stage performance of The Screwtape Letters. My late husband and I attended such a performance at a local university, approximately five years ago. It was excellent!

Here's a youtube link to a small portion of the performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdBNimP7eaw

Max Mclean is the star [Uncle Screwtape] and the only speaker in the show.

Wikipedia: McLean conceived, adapted, produced and starred in The Screwtape Letters, a play based on the book by Oxford scholar, author and fantasy writer C.S. Lewis. McLean also is the narrator of The Listener’s Bible.

My husband and I bought our son The Listener's Bible, narrated by Max McLean, when he was going to seminary. He listened to the CD's every day on his hour-long drive to school. He loved listening to Max McLean's booming voice.

Hey thank you! I will check this out this evening. Have to get going now.

[scotttie]

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/31/2015 beammeupscottie said:

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/31/2015 JuJu Squeezie said:

On 3/31/2015 SuiGeneris said:

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist." ~ Charles Baudelaire

Considering the Devil's reported over inflated and self centered ego, Charles Baudelaire may have a good reason to be enjoying his quote.

You are describing an egotist.

Egotism -- is the drive to maintain and enhance favorable views of oneself, and generally features an inflated opinion of one's personal features and importance. The egotist has an overwhelming sense of the centrality of the 'Me', that is to say of their personal qualities. Egotists have a strong tendency to talk about themselves in a self-promoting fashion, and they may well be arrogant and boastful with a grandiose sense of their own importance. [Wikipedia]

I feel that an egotist is the opposite what the quote describes. If we have convinced ourselves that Satan is the figment of someone's overactive imagination [a guy in a red suit with horns, a tail and a little pitchfork] we have taken all his power away and left him impotent to wreak havoc in the world. He is then no longer evil; he's merely a fanciful story in a very old book.

For a powerful spiritual being to allow himself to be denigrated by human beings to the point of becoming farcical, indicates to me that he knows that he wields more power by being able to sneak around, inculcating himself into the hearts and minds of the unsuspecting people of this world. He gains power and dominance by [supposed] invisibility and guile.

That's not a egotist, someone who is saying, "Me, me, me!" and "Look at me!" and "Look what I did! Am I not special? Am I not wonderful?"

Instead, he's sitting in a dark place, all alone, rubbing his hands together with glee, laughing at the gullibility of the human race.

That's what I think the quote means.

I want to highlight this portion of your post suiGeneris:

If we have convinced ourselves that Satan is the figment of someone's overactive imagination [a guy in a red suit with horns, a tail and a little pitchfork] we have taken all his power away and left him impotent to wreak havoc in the world. He is then no longer evil; he's merely a fanciful story in a very old book.

I believe that this is the point made also by C.S. Lewis. Have you read Screwtape Letters?

Yes, I have. Years ago! I suppose the core theme of the book stayed in my subconscious all this time.

[Wormwood gave me the creeps!]

ETA: I looked up what C.S. Lewis said:

“There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors, and hail a materialist or magician with the same delight” (C.S. Lewis. The Screwtape Letter. 1941, p. 3).

Explanation from another source:

This is certainly true about Satan. Some people totally dismiss him as an impersonal force or somebody in a red suit with a pitchfork. On the other end of the spectrum, many people attribute too much power and importance to Lucifer.

It's been a long time since I read it as well. Thank you for these quotes. Excellent.

[RainCityGirl]

Sorry, but I don't believe in a Satan, Devil, Lucifer the fallen angel, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles or any other incarnation that people attribute to "evil." These are merely symbols to me of what may or may not exist in real human beings. To blame some nebulous caricature of malevolence on choices made by actual humans is a cop out in my opinion. There is only one person responsible for wrong doing, and that is the individual. If you do the deed, then at least have the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility when confronted and deal with the consequences one way or the other.

[chickenbutt]

On 3/31/2015 RainCityGirl said:

Sorry, but I don't believe in a Satan, Devil, Lucifer the fallen angel, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles or any other incarnation that people attribute to "evil." These are merely symbols to me of what may or may not exist in real human beings. To blame some nebulous caricature of malevolence on choices made by actual humans is a cop out in my opinion. There is only one person responsible for wrong doing, and that is the individual. If you do the deed, then at least have the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility when confronted and deal with the consequences one way or the other.

Well said. These are all fictional characters and it's hard to believe that some people actually think they exist. I abhor brainwashing. It is insidious on so many levels.

[tansy]

On 3/31/2015 chickenbutt said:

On 3/31/2015 RainCityGirl said:

Sorry, but I don't believe in a Satan, Devil, Lucifer the fallen angel, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles or any other incarnation that people attribute to "evil." These are merely symbols to me of what may or may not exist in real human beings. To blame some nebulous caricature of malevolence on choices made by actual humans is a cop out in my opinion. There is only one person responsible for wrong doing, and that is the individual. If you do the deed, then at least have the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility when confronted and deal with the consequences one way or the other.

Well said. These are all fictional characters and it's hard to believe that some people actually think they exist. I abhor brainwashing. It is insidious on so many levels.

Well said by both of you...and a relief that someone thinks like me

[RainCityGirl]

On 3/31/2015 tansy said:

On 3/31/2015 chickenbutt said:

On 3/31/2015 RainCityGirl said:

Sorry, but I don't believe in a Satan, Devil, Lucifer the fallen angel, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles or any other incarnation that people attribute to "evil." These are merely symbols to me of what may or may not exist in real human beings. To blame some nebulous caricature of malevolence on choices made by actual humans is a cop out in my opinion. There is only one person responsible for wrong doing, and that is the individual. If you do the deed, then at least have the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility when confronted and deal with the consequences one way or the other.

Well said. These are all fictional characters and it's hard to believe that some people actually think they exist. I abhor brainwashing. It is insidious on so many levels.

Well said by both of you...and a relief that someone thinks like me

Maybe it's the water where we live. LOL.

[mstyrion 1]

On 3/31/2015 tansy said:

On 3/31/2015 chickenbutt said:

On 3/31/2015 RainCityGirl said:

Sorry, but I don't believe in a Satan, Devil, Lucifer the fallen angel, Beelzebub, Mephistopheles or any other incarnation that people attribute to "evil." These are merely symbols to me of what may or may not exist in real human beings. To blame some nebulous caricature of malevolence on choices made by actual humans is a cop out in my opinion. There is only one person responsible for wrong doing, and that is the individual. If you do the deed, then at least have the intestinal fortitude to accept responsibility when confronted and deal with the consequences one way or the other.

Well said. These are all fictional characters and it's hard to believe that some people actually think they exist. I abhor brainwashing. It is insidious on so many levels.

Well said by both of you...and a relief that someone thinks like me

...and like me!

I agree. Well said RCG and CB