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Super Contributor
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Registered: ‎06-24-2021

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔


I don't know those 22,600 electric car owners, so I can't answer the question. Are you saying that every electric car owner was stranded? Were there no gas powered cars stranded?

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@CelticCrafter wrote:

@CherryHugs wrote:

Wonder what happens if there is a power outage?!


If there's a power outage you can't charge the batteries.


You can't pump gas either.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 27,870
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔


I don't know those 22,600 electric car owners, so I can't answer the question. Are you saying that every electric car owner was stranded? Were there no gas powered cars strand


 

 

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,439
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Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@teganslaw wrote:

 There are several reasons why some people don't want them.

 

Too expensive. Maybe they save money overall since they don't need gas, but the price of most electric cars is too costly. 

 

Not enough charging stations. That depends on the area; some states have more stations than others.

 

Power outages. The power grid isn't large enough to contain all electric. For example, California wants to eventually get rid of all gas cars. Yet their power grid won't sustain it for that many. Something that looks good in theory, but is too problematic in real life to work. 

 

They don't cause gas emissions, but electric cars don't really help the planet any more than gas cars because the batteries needed for them have to be disposed of somehow. It's just something activists want people to believe. 

 

I'm not against anyone having electric cars, if that's what they like. Just pointing out some things about them. 


@teganslaw   Excellent points.  People are also forgetting the energy consumption used to build the cars AND the impacts regarding materials to produce batteries.

 

Lithium, nickel, cobalt and other REMs (rare earth minerals) all have negative mining impacts on the environment.

 

Emissions aside, there still ways to reduce carbon with gas-powered cars; lighter vehicles and improved ways to reduce emissions.

 

The cost of an electric vehicle is out of the reach of the average citizen right now.

 

People say they will buy one but they do not or say they will buy one "later" to save the environment.  In the meantime still driving a gas-powered vehicle.

 

This is a complex and serious issue without etched in stone solutions.


We need a balance.

 

People are against wind-power but wind-power plants today have a "radar" type system to divert birds away from them.  Birds were a main concern regarding wind-power.

 

Everything has a return; one solution will always have issues to be solved or at least minimized; we cannot say one product such as electric cars does not come with its own set of issues.

 

Balance.

 

 

""Out beyond the ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I will meet you there." -Rumi
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Posts: 36,800
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at this point i am not at all interested in owning an electric car. not convinced that it is any better for the environment, or lasts longer, or is more efficient.

 

also, my main concern is that i travel frequently. i am not interested in stopping for a recharge or trying to find a place to recharge when i can pump my gas in less than five minutes and be on my way.

**********************************************
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Super Contributor
Posts: 448
Registered: ‎06-24-2021

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔


I don't know those 22,600 electric car owners, so I can't answer the question. Are you saying that every electric car owner was stranded? Were there no gas powered cars stranded?


@JamandBread 

 

I saw the traffic and LOTS of gas powered cars on the roads 


I see. Your observations only. You really don't know how many electric cars continued to run thru the power outage. I thought you had stats. Thank you for the clarification.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 27,870
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

@Cakers3 

 

One thing about those wind turbines...have you been down to the coast and seen them all....boy they sure to take up a LOT of land....so we got these huge metal things primarily made of steel taking up acres of land, with the hot sun hitting them, doesnt that heat up the environment...??????? Researchers report the most accurate modelling yet of how increasing wind power would affect climate, finding that large-scale wind power generation would warm the Continental United States . And we are using this valuable land that could be used for other important purposes like growing food (vegtables and fruits which is important because they want to discourage eating of red meat)

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,439
Registered: ‎06-17-2015

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔


I don't know those 22,600 electric car owners, so I can't answer the question. Are you saying that every electric car owner was stranded? Were there no gas powered cars stranded?


@JamandBread 

 

I saw the traffic and LOTS of gas powered cars on the roads 


I see. Your observations only. You really don't know how many electric cars continued to run thru the power outage. I thought you had stats. Thank you for the clarification.


@JamandBread   The issue isn't about "stats"; the issue is how efficient EV's are in extreme cold.   From what I have been researching lithium batteries do not hold up well in cold weather.

 

Also charging stations are not amenable to all brands of EV's.

 

Joshua Busby, a professor in UTAustin specializing in environment and climate policy, could not recharge his EV between Austin and College Station because the stations were only for Tesla.

 

I think this discussion is heading in the wrong direction instead of presenting some of the other issues involved with EV's.

 

Obviously nobody was out counting EV's during that freeze but if @Spurt saw plenty of gas-powered cars that doesn't mean she was counting them and not the EV's.

 

This discussion is becoming a tad heated and it might be better to discuss production and the infrastructure issues surrounding maintaining an EV.

""Out beyond the ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I will meet you there." -Rumi
Honored Contributor
Posts: 27,870
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔


I don't know those 22,600 electric car owners, so I can't answer the question. Are you saying that every electric car owner was stranded? Were there no gas powered cars stranded?


@JamandBread 

 

I saw the traffic and LOTS of gas powered cars on the roads 


I see. Your observations only. You really don't know how many electric cars continued to run thru the power outage. I thought you had stats. Thank you for the clarification.


@JamandBread 

 

Oh stats---here's some---from the scientificameicana and theverge.com --

Extreme weather is sucking the life from your electric car
 

Last month’s polar vortex was especially rough for EV owners

 

As more affordable and longer-range electric cars hit the market, the long-predicted shift to battery-powered transportation seems poised to actually happen. But a serious challenge remains: battery-sucking cold weather.

New research from AAA reveals that when the mercury dips to 20 degrees Fahrenheit, the average driving range of an electric car decreases by 41 percent. When colder temperatures hit, EV owners have the same instinct as their internal combustion engine-driving brethren, which is to crank up the heat as high as it will go. This puts a serious strain on an EV’s battery, reducing the overall range and increasing the need to charge more often to minimize the chance of being stranded by a dead battery.

AS THE MERCURY DIPS, SO DOES YOUR BATTERY’S CHARGE

“The appeal of electric vehicles continues to grow since a greater variety of designs and options with increased range have come onto the market,” said Greg Brannon, AAA’s director of Automotive Engineering and Industry Relations, in a statement. “As long as drivers understand that there are limitations when operating electric vehicles in more extreme climates, they are less likely to be caught off guard by an unexpected drop in driving range.”

EV owners discovered this during the recent cold snap that hit central US and Canada. As temperatures plunged, owners of Chevy Bolts and Tesla Model 3s told CNBC they were seeing at most 50 percent less range in their vehicles. 

Extreme heat is also a drag on electric vehicles. When outside temperatures heat up to 95 degrees Fahrenheit and air conditioning is used inside the vehicle, driving ranges can decrease by 17 percent, AAA reports. Extreme temperatures certainly play a role in diminishing driving range, but the use of the vehicle’s heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) system in these conditions — particularly the heat — has by far the greatest effect.

The problem is that, unlike a car with an internal combustion engine that can warm the cabin with waste heat, EVs have to tap into their batteries to power the climate control system.

Less battery power means more charging, which increases the cost to operate the vehicle. AAA’s study found that the use of heat when it’s 20 degrees Fahrenheit outside adds almost $25 more for every 1,000 miles compared to the cost of combined urban and highway driving at a balmy 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

AAA tested five electric vehicles — the BMW i3, Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf, Tesla Model S, and Volkswagen e-Golf — all with a minimum EPA-estimated driving range of 100 miles. Real-world driving conditions were simulated using a dynamometer, which is essentially a giant treadmill for cars, in a closed testing cell where ambient temperature could be tightly controlled.

To determine the effects on driving range, scenarios for cold and hot weather conditions — both when using HVAC and not — were compared to those of driving with a normal outside temperature. Surprisingly, AAA found the impact on range was pretty much uniform among the cars tested.

EV manufacturers will have to find a way to communicate the effects of extreme weather to customer as they push to increase their sales market. In the meantime, owners can take some steps to help mitigate the effect of extreme heat and cold on their vehicles, AAA says. Take some time to pre-heat or pre-cool the car while its still hooked up to a charger. And plan ahead for frequent stops to charge if you’re going on a longer trip, so you don’t get caught on the side of the road with a dead battery.

 
Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
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Not sure what that has to do with the ability to continue to drive during a power outage, but ok. I dont own an electric car, no plans to purchase one, so i have no skin in the game. My replies simply had to do with being able to gas up or charge up during power outages. You can't do either. So the theory that gas powered vehicles are more reliable during long term power outages doesnt make sense. At least not to me.