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Honored Contributor
Posts: 33,631
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@gardenman wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@gardenman wrote:

@Spurt 

 

No one talks about how to heat the cities in the winter without fossil fuels. Imagine trying to heat all of the buildings in Chicago, NYC, Boston, or similar cities without fossil fuels. How do you do it? You just can't. Eliminating fossil fuels is impossible at this point. I don't even know why anyone suggests it can be done. It just can't be done now.


@gardenman 

 

Very well said! Even though our "artic storm" provided lower than normal winter temperatures, in no way does this compare with what the normal winter temperatures are for those that live in the North and Northeast (below zero)..... so if this environmental friendly wind system stopped working in Texas (even with it paired with a combo diverse portfolio consisting of wind/natural gas/nuclear/electricity),  how can this possibly work where it gets even colder and winters are longer....Those in charge just dont have ANY common sense or they dont care!  This was a green energy test and it failed, yet they seem to be ignoring it blaming it on a freak storm, but it had ramifications for the entire U.S.!!! 

 

This is what the investigation said about how the wind turbines and solar performed: 

Widespread freezing rain reduced the operability of many wind turbines and overcast conditions obviously limited solar output. the amount allocated for natural gas generation quickly surged, then continued increasing but not able to meet the dramatic increase in demand while coal and nuclear held constant.”  

@gardenman What was interesting is we had similar temperatures back in 1989 but had no problems because the main source was coal and nuclear!!!  Back then our houses were nice and warm and we had fun playing in the 13 inches of snow...


@Spurt 

 

Texas wouldn't have had a problem this time around either, but they couldn't restart their older power plants that no longer met Federal clean air standards without permission from the EPA. Texas applied to the EPA for emergency permission to restart those plants and permission was granted, but the EPA insisted they had to be billed at a minimum of $1500/MWh. That made it absurdly expensive to restart the plants. The average wholesale cost of electricity in 2020 was $22/MWh, so you're talking a fairly substantial increase in costs.

 

Texas saw the problem coming and tried to head it off, but the Feds made it impossible. They had the power plants standing by, all they needed was permission to restart them and while they were given the permission, the costs imposed made it impossible. 


@gardenman 

 

Yep, they are still jacking up the price and said we would have to pay for it at that $1500 price...and supposedly this fall we will start that process and will be pay what the market bears and this outrageous price!!! Our city is suing!!!---

 

Slowly we are getting more and more info from our city's investigation.... In addition to what you said, there were 3 states willing to provide us with power--- Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Missouri....however, they suffered power shortages of their own and were going to have to go with rolling blackouts so that stopped that idea as well......Woman Frustrated These States are on the National and not the Texas grid....so what happened to them....?!?!?!?  Its not just a Texas problem.....

 

Check this out----Helotes is a small incorporated city located just outside of SA...and they also attended a meeting along with our city....Helotes Mayor Rich Whitehead took to Facebook with questions and a story Wednesday, a week after he took a meeting at the new CPS Energy headquarters.  “At the same time, ERCOT asked Texas residents to bump their thermostat to 78 last week to conserve energy,” Whitehead posted, adding much of CPS is still working from home. “The whole place was pleasantly cold. As much as 65 worth of cold.” AND Whitehead noted his visit was during the time ERCOT was asking for energy conservation. (we got a message that it was an energy action day and asked people to conserve---and it was only 93!!!!----we usually get these calls and texts if its 98, 99 or 100 ..hmmmmm)
)

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 33,631
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@JamandBread wrote:
@Spurtpeople who have electric cars will charge up the same way people will gas up if a storm is coming. In the end, neither electric or gas vehicle owners would be able to run their cars if faced with a long term power outage.

@JamandBread 

 

So what happened in our city then when electric car owners were stranded and meteorologist warned us for weeks what was coming why didnt the electric car owners (all 22,600) prepare like gasoline car owners did.......🤔

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 11,193
Registered: ‎07-21-2014

Wonder what happens if there is a power outage?!

Faith is the strength by which a shattered world shall emerge into the light. —Helen Keller
Honored Contributor
Posts: 9,283
Registered: ‎03-09-2010

@CherryHugs wrote:

Wonder what happens if there is a power outage?!


If there's a power outage you can't charge the batteries.

Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,517
Registered: ‎06-17-2015

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@Spurt wrote:


@gardenman 

 

 

 

Check this out----Helotes is a small incorporated city located just outside of SA...and they also attended a meeting along with our city....Helotes Mayor Rich Whitehead took to Facebook with questions and a story Wednesday, a week after he took a meeting at the new CPS Energy headquarters.  “At the same time, ERCOT asked Texas residents to bump their thermostat to 78 last week to conserve energy,” Whitehead posted, adding much of CPS is still working from home. “The whole place was pleasantly cold. As much as 65 worth of cold.” AND Whitehead noted his visit was during the time ERCOT was asking for energy conservation. (we got a message that it was an energy action day and asked people to conserve---and it was only 93!!!!----we usually get these calls and texts if its 98, 99 or 100 ..hmmmmm)
)


@Spurt   Those calls are as annoying as snot.

 

We conserve in the extreme and I really do not like the robo-voice comparing our usage to that of our neighbors.  Like getting a gold star in Kindergarten.

 

I look at it this way-if you have to be reminded about "how hot is it" and you need to be compared to other people AND you need to be reminded about conservation-then you really do not care and will not bother paying attention anyway.

 

(Generic "you")

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh
Honored Contributor
Posts: 13,913
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

I don't get the fascination with some to electric cars. I know what is said, and I also know how most energy is produced. Hear the "you will save in the long run", but some don't keep cars long enough to be considered the "long run". What specific number is considered to be the "long run"?

 

For those of us that have lived life in the present, the long run might be today! And for me that has been my life from my teens.

 

 

hckynut 

hckynut(john)
Honored Contributor
Posts: 33,631
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@Cakers3 wrote:

 

Check this out----Helotes is a small incorporated city located just outside of SA...and they also attended a meeting along with our city....Helotes Mayor Rich Whitehead took to Facebook with questions and a story Wednesday, a week after he took a meeting at the new CPS Energy headquarters.  “At the same time, ERCOT asked Texas residents to bump their thermostat to 78 last week to conserve energy,” Whitehead posted, adding much of CPS is still working from home. “The whole place was pleasantly cold. As much as 65 worth of cold.” AND Whitehead noted his visit was during the time ERCOT was asking for energy conservation. (we got a message that it was an energy action day and asked people to conserve---and it was only 93!!!!----we usually get these calls and texts if its 98, 99 or 100 ..hmmmmm)
)


@Spurt   Those calls are as annoying as snot.

 

We are conserve in the extreme and I really do not like the robo-voice comparing our usage to that of our neighbors.  Like getting a gold star in Kindergarten.

 

I look at it this way-if you have to be reminded about "how hot is it" and you need to be compared to other people AND you need to be reminded about conservation-then you really do not care and will not bother paying attention anyway.

 

(Generic "you")


@Cakers3 

 

I totally agree with you, and I think the reason most people even bother is not so much being and good citizen and conserving more so is that they dont want their utility bill to resemble the national debt.... 

 

At least a call is better than the "smart" thermostat where CPS used to actually take control and turn off people's A/C for 30 minute intervals....thats giving them way too much "power".......thats why I declined to put one in....

BTW if you want a laugh go to ERCOT's Twitter account on 6/18 and check out the people's responses to ERCOT'S request to conserve energy----the people of SA vented and channeled their built up "ice storm rage" into a sense of humor and sent humorous yet poignant messages to ERCOT --- made my day!!! 😄

 

One of my favorites was a take on the famous defiant message by Texans to countries trying to take control --- "Come And Take It"

 

gonzales_banner3a.jpg

 

....Here's the Ercot version--- 🤣🤣🤣


199822622_3010244539296907_5975084752112053239_n.jpg

 

 

 

 

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 17,517
Registered: ‎06-17-2015

@Spurt wrote:

@Cakers3 wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@gardenman wrote:

@Spurt wrote:

@gardenman wrote:

@Spurt 

 

No one talks about how to heat the cities in the winter without fossil fuels. Imagine trying to heat all of the buildings in Chicago, NYC, Boston, or similar cities without fossil fuels. How do you do it? You just can't. Eliminating fossil fuels is impossible at this point. I don't even know why anyone suggests it can be done. It just can't be done now.


@gardenman 

 

Very well said! Even though our "artic storm" provided lower than normal winter temperatures, in no way does this compare with what the normal winter temperatures are for those that live in the North and Northeast (below zero)..... so if this environmental friendly wind system stopped working in Texas (even with it paired with a combo diverse portfolio consisting of wind/natural gas/nuclear/electricity),  how can this possibly work where it gets even colder and winters are longer....Those in charge just dont have ANY common sense or they dont care!  This was a green energy test and it failed, yet they seem to be ignoring it blaming it on a freak storm, but it had ramifications for the entire U.S.!!! 

 

This is what the investigation said about how the wind turbines and solar performed: 

Widespread freezing rain reduced the operability of many wind turbines and overcast conditions obviously limited solar output. the amount allocated for natural gas generation quickly surged, then continued increasing but not able to meet the dramatic increase in demand while coal and nuclear held constant.”  

@gardenman What was interesting is we had similar temperatures back in 1989 but had no problems because the main source was coal and nuclear!!!  Back then our houses were nice and warm and we had fun playing in the 13 inches of snow...


@Spurt 

 

Texas wouldn't have had a problem this time around either, but they couldn't restart their older power plants that no longer met Federal clean air standards without permission from the EPA. Texas applied to the EPA for emergency permission to restart those plants and permission was granted, but the EPA insisted they had to be billed at a minimum of $1500/MWh. That made it absurdly expensive to restart the plants. The average wholesale cost of electricity in 2020 was $22/MWh, so you're talking a fairly substantial increase in costs.

 

Texas saw the problem coming and tried to head it off, but the Feds made it impossible. They had the power plants standing by, all they needed was permission to restart them and while they were given the permission, the costs imposed made it impossible. 


@gardenman 

 

Yep, they are still jacking up the price and said we would have to pay for it at that $1500 price...and supposedly this fall we will start that process and will be pay what the market bears and this outrageous price!!! Our city is suing!!!---

 

Slowly we are getting more and more info from our city's investigation.... In addition to what you said, there were 3 states willing to provide us with power--- Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Missouri....however, they suffered power shortages of their own and were going to have to go with rolling blackouts so that stopped that idea as well......Woman Frustrated These States are on the National and not the Texas grid....so what happened to them....?!?!?!?  Its not just a Texas problem.....

 

Check this out----Helotes is a small incorporated city located just outside of SA...and they also attended a meeting along with our city....Helotes Mayor Rich Whitehead took to Facebook with questions and a story Wednesday, a week after he took a meeting at the new CPS Energy headquarters.  “At the same time, ERCOT asked Texas residents to bump their thermostat to 78 last week to conserve energy,” Whitehead posted, adding much of CPS is still working from home. “The whole place was pleasantly cold. As much as 65 worth of cold.” AND Whitehead noted his visit was during the time ERCOT was asking for energy conservation. (we got a message that it was an energy action day and asked people to conserve---and it was only 93!!!!----we usually get these calls and texts if its 98, 99 or 100 ..hmmmmm)
)


@Spurt   Those calls are as annoying as snot.

 

We are conserve in the extreme and I really do not like the robo-voice comparing our usage to that of our neighbors.  Like getting a gold star in Kindergarten.

 

I look at it this way-if you have to be reminded about "how hot is it" and you need to be compared to other people AND you need to be reminded about conservation-then you really do not care and will not bother paying attention anyway.

 

(Generic "you")


@Cakers3 

 

I totally agree with you, and I think the reason most people even bother is not so much being and good citizen and conserving more so is that they dont want their utility bill to resemble the national debt.... 

 

At least a call is better than the "smart" thermostat where CPS used to actually take control and turn off people's A/C for 30 minute intervals....thats giving them way too much "control".......thats why I declined to put one in....

BTW if you want a laugh go to ERCOT's Twitter account on 6/18 and check out the people's responses to ERCOT'S request to conserve energy----the people of SA vented and channeled their built up "ice storm rage" into a sense of humor and sent humorous yet poignant messages to ERCOT --- made my day!!! 😄

 

One of my favorites was a take on the famous defiant message by Texans of "Come And Take It"

 

gonzales_banner3a.jpg

 

....Here's the Ercot version--- 🤣🤣🤣


199822622_3010244539296907_5975084752112053239_n.jpg

 

 

 

 


@Spurt   I saw that bit about CPS actually being able to adjust your smart thermostat!! 

 

Which only leads to people pushing the setting back down-wondering why it's getting too warm in their homes.

 

I'll bet many people are not aware and probably think the unit is malfunctioning.

 

The next few days next week will be in the 80's.  They will probably want everyone to use a setting of 88.  Yeesh.

 

 

"" Compassion is a verb."-Thich Nhat Hanh
Honored Contributor
Posts: 33,631
Registered: ‎03-20-2010

Re: Electric cars

[ Edited ]

@Cakers3 wrote:


@Spurt   I saw that bit about CPS actually being able to adjust your smart thermostat!! 

 

Which only leads to people pushing the setting back down-wondering why it's getting too warm in their homes.

 

I'll bet many people are not aware and probably think the unit is malfunctioning.

 

The next few days next week will be in the 80's.  They will probably want everyone to use a setting of 88.  Yeesh.

 

 


@Cakers3 



















People dont realize the ramifications of those "smart thermostats" they just think how neat they can operate their thermostat with their phones... they dont realize CPS can also gain control-- the customer has to do a bit of research but there is a way to OPT OUT of the control which most people arent aware of....

 

ITA with you, I wonder what CPS's excuse will be when they ask for conservation efforts when the temperature drops down to the 80's....if their equipment isn't working properly just FIX 'IT!!! 

 

And an A/C guy warned me that when one increases the temperature during peak energy times (3PM to 7PM), when you turn it back down your A/C works that much harder to cool your home ...and it causes wear and tear on your A/C which guess who has to pay for repairs or a new unit....😫 He said its really best for your A/C to leave it at one temperature and just use fans to help the unit distribute the cool air and the A/C will actually come on less...

Animals are reliable, full of love, true in their affections, grateful. Difficult standards for people to live up to.”
Honored Contributor
Posts: 32,486
Registered: ‎03-10-2010

It's going to be hard on a lot of us until or unless this country decided to deal realistically with energy and does it in a factual way.

 

We have enough energy.  Some don't like the reality of it, but we have the energy--just will we chose to use it or ignore the reality of the situation and play like we have more options than we actually have.  Or import it again and we all know how that works out for us.