Community Chat

[Sooner]

@novamc1 Very very well stated.  I have wondered the same thing.  Especially what happens to cows, chickens, etc.

Farms and farm animals, shepards and flocks, etc.  It is all a symbiotic system, and one that has united humans, animals and the earth since the beginning.  

Anything can be improved and will evolve as time goes on, but I don't see this order changing.  It makes no sense at all.  And it's those involved at a basic level who love, respect, care for, and cherish all--plants, people, animals--involved in and dependent on one another. 

[sidsmom]

The idea that the world will be overcome with cows & chickens

if we don't eat them is pinch comical.

Reduce the need & attrition will naturally occur.

Happen overnight?

Of course not, but it can..and WILL...happen.

Early 1900's...the landscape was filled with horse-drawn carriages

then this guy named Ford wanted everyone to buy a 'Motor Carriage.'

Amazing I can drive the Tollway today without bumping into any horses.

I honor my online friend, @phoenixbrd , for her beautiful thoughts

when trying to explain animals are sentient beings...and we should not

kill them for our pleasure. 🌼💛

I have hope, maybe not in my lifetime, that killing/harming  

innocent animals will be a thing of the past.  We are already

seeing great strides, here in the States, in reducing animal testing

and dairy farming.  It's slow, but it's happening.
Excited to see changes being made. 

[Sooner]

@sidsmom No, I'm thinking cattle, chickens and other farm animals would be almost extinct.  Like many wild animals, they are prey animals, and would be killed from predators in the wild.

They wouldn't be fed and cared for, people wouldn't keep cows for pets, or chickens so they would be I don't know where, fending for themselves, dying in blizzards and from disease, etc.  Zoos will be gone soon, so I'm thinking you'll be hard pressed to ever see a cow. 

Without pesticides and GMO, the enormous plant farms will be beset by insects and animals, so that will be a continuing struggle there to keep crops from being eaten and damaged, so I don't know how that will work either.

I just don't see the utopian perfect world that so many envision.  At least not in this life or many more.  People tend to have a rosy childlike picture without considering the realities of natural hazards, economics, and the enormous problems of feeding the earth's ever increasing population.

How many people at this moment are dying from hunger and disease and would be saved and strengthened by a glass of milk?  How many would have starved without GMO crops that could be grown near enough to them to supply a meal?  

Modern farming methods have saved countless lives and are helping keep people from literally starving to death in many remote and harsh climates.  What about those people?  What about us who have the abundance we have in every grocery store across this country? 

It isn't a fairytale that got us here.  It isn't a fairytale that will allow many more to live around the world.

And if you think about it, shephards still tend their flocks all across the globe and millions give thanks for them every day.  

[sidsmom]

@Sooner 

'....strengthened by a glass of milk...'

That's UNICEF holiday marketing at its best.

Starving populations from around the world are not caused

by lack of pesticides & GMOs.  It's because of mostly

climate change and politics.

Many of these impoverish areas are the slow result of our world

climate change...and it's only getting worse w/ a quicker pace.
What we do from one side of the World, affects those on the

opposite side of the World. We are in this together...to take action

to better our climate.    

Then on the other hand, many of these areas are very, very fruitful...

but political discord prevents farmers from making income.

It's not like cultures from around the World, farming their land for

millinea, suddenly wake up & have to start using pesticides.

And the sad part, many of these cultures survive on starches,

legumes, fruits, vegetables...which animal production is hurting

their foundational way of eating. 

It would not be the 'utopian' world...but it might be a world where

animals are not harmed, drugged & unethically slaughtered for

human pleasure.

Changes are being made.....good changes.

It will take time, but I'm glad people from around the World

are finally taking notice.  Animals for human consumption

will be a thing of the past...we really don't have a choice. 

ETA:

Many are discounting GMOs and the evil they provide 

but many on the other side are saying 'stop polluting our World!'

If one continues to eat animal products, you're contributing 

to the GMO problem.  Clean World = Clean Food.

[QueenDanceALot]

@Sooner 

You make many very good points.  

I wonder how those who envision this utopian world of kindness and gentleness look at nature, which is a combination of peace and violence.  Anyone who has ever seen an episode of Wild KIngdom would have to accept that.  Or if you've only seen a cat kill a mouse.  

I also wonder how those who push for no animal consumption at all propose we feed our pets who are carnivorous by nature.  I am not going to feed my cats rice and beans, that is not their natural diet. My friends are not going to feed their dogs potatoes and blueberries.  We need to respect nature, don't we?

I am very anti corporate/industrial farming and do not support them (and have said that numerous times on this board), but doing away with all animal products is simply not realistic or in accordance with nature.  Don't we want to live in accordance with nature?

[phoenixbrd]

@sidsmom   Thank you for your kind words.  And much appreciation for your knowledge and information; ever ready to provide us with facts regarding a sustainable, nonviolent, healthy lifestyle.

[Sooner]

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@phoenixbrd wrote:

Life is not a "little thing".  But I understand how people feel threatened when their life long habits are questioned.  Of course, it is your choice how you choose to live your life.  It is not just about eggs, but your interaction with other living beings, your health, and how you choose/or not to support our planet.

Wishing you a happy holiday and may the new year bring you much joy and peace.

---

@phoenixbrd If it is about choice, how come there is so much shaming and deriding from one side to the other?  It isn't about choice to many, it is about "truth" to them and only THEY know it, flying in the face of human existance.

Saying it is about "education" is saying that side is educated and the other is not educated.  Choice is not about education it is choice.  And if you want to talk about educated, what about the side that ignores the entire body of science gathered over time, the people who farm and feed the world, the bulk of the world's population--all wrong and uneducated according to them?

Now does that really make a lick of sense?  No.  Will it impact the world?  Not really because there is no room for give and take or acceptance of other's views.  That, and that certainly, is the true death of any idea, philosophy, or cult behavior. Proven over and over across time. 

The rest of us are happily eating, enjoying, learning, sharing and making progress in feeding the world's hungry PEOPLE and uplifting them.  Agriculture is a beautiful thing, people and their flocks and abundance are a beautiful thing, being made more beautiful than ever through cooperation of peoples everywhere and the love for animals and people.  

Talk to a Native American about the relationships of the animals and people.   They understand well. 

[phoenixbrd]

@Sooner   It would take a dissertation to address many of the issues you raise. We do not live in a world where animals roam the plain and Native Americans hunt providing for their families.  What I am discussing is not a Utopian vision...but a reality that is inevitable.  

 Plants will provide our nutrition and, eventually, we will not have a choice as the current farm factory agriculture that exists will be unsustainable.  When climate control is discussed, this practice is a major offender. The drugs being pumped into animals because the space required per animal is so sparse that animals will die without antibiotics and other drugs - the broiler chickens are pumped up to be so heavy that they can't walk in their small space and their legs can break from the weight if they stand.  Drugs currently are not being regulated by the government (this will change) which impacts not only the health of the animals but the water and manure is impacted.  The situation is much worse as it is not just our precious animals that are directly impacted, but our entire ecosystem.  

I am not here to argue.  We are discussing a reality that is already taking place. (I could discuss the economic studies and the impact of these new "meats", but that would be a whole other discussion.)  In vitro meat will become a reality for those who continue to feed their taste for meat.  The projection is 10-15 years.  This will not be the plant burger that is currently being offered at Burger King (which will continue to exist), but will consist of live animal cells (will the cruelty ever end).   It is in the labs now being perfected.  Unfortunately, I wish I could look through rose colored glasses, but that is not reality.  There is an upside to this saga as there is also a movement towards a more humane lifestyle that will impact our health, environment, and less cruelty.

If you wish to really learn,  there is a lot of research and numerous books.  I know it is challenging to face change....but it is inevitable as our current situation is unsustainable.  This is not my personal opinion and I could have been a lot more graphic, out of respect to the board I don't feel it is an appropriate venue.   But the information is easily accessible and I've already suggested a book to begin to understand the current situation.  I continue to wish you the best....nothing is personal.  It is Christmas day and I am so grateful for my life.  Wishing you a joyfilled new year!

[suzyQ3]

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@Kachina624 wrote:

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

Is it really necessary to rehash this just because a poster was kind enough to alert us to an expanded recall? Will it change any minds?

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It sounds like that "kind" poster, who loves to yell "FIRE" now has some people scared to eat any eggs.

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@Kachina624,  the OP @Mindy D provides important information. If some people don't know how to process it, that's on them. Nothing in her alerts is exaggerated or sensational.

[Sooner]

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@sidsmom wrote:

@Sooner 

'....strengthened by a glass of milk...'

That's UNICEF holiday marketing at its best.

Starving populations from around the world are not caused

by lack of pesticides & GMOs.  It's because of mostly

climate change and politics.

Many of these impoverish areas are the slow result of our world

climate change...and it's only getting worse w/ a quicker pace.
What we do from one side of the World, affects those on the

opposite side of the World. We are in this together...to take action

to better our climate.    

Then on the other hand, many of these areas are very, very fruitful...

but political discord prevents farmers from making income.

It's not like cultures from around the World, farming their land for

millinea, suddenly wake up & have to start using pesticides.

And the sad part, many of these cultures survive on starches,

legumes, fruits, vegetables...which animal production is hurting

their foundational way of eating. 

It would not be the 'utopian' world...but it might be a world where

animals are not harmed, drugged & unethically slaughtered for

human pleasure.

Changes are being made.....good changes.

It will take time, but I'm glad people from around the World

are finally taking notice.  Animals for human consumption

will be a thing of the past...we really don't have a choice. 

ETA:

Many are discounting GMOs and the evil they provide 

but many on the other side are saying 'stop polluting our World!'

If one continues to eat animal products, you're contributing 

to the GMO problem.  Clean World = Clean Food.

---

Fantasy land for sure.