Community Chat

[raven-blackbird]

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@Noel7 wrote:

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@raven-blackbird wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@Trinity11 Didn't you say they gave me morphine even when I didn't need it -- the only reason you didn't need it would be if you weren't having pain. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. 

Also - yes - many people have myocardial infarctions and don't have pain . They have arrythmias and that is how their MI is detected. Some people have routine EKGs and old MIs are detected that they were not even aware ever happened. 

Just because you were a patient in a hospital does not qualify you as an expert.

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@151949

@Trinity11

the fact her doctor had her on a pain medication, rather she needed it or not, falls under pain management......also, nurses can't order medication, they can only follow doctors orders.....the idea of managing the pain before it gets to a point where all the pain medication in the world can't manage it, is prudent actions by her doctor/nurses...........it will also, like aspirin, thin the blood which is extremely helpful on someone having cardio problems..........which is also another reason why they would want her on the medication rather she felt she needed it or not.


now the fact SHE HAS PERSONALLY faced this issue...........makes her more of an expert then someone who has not.........even doctors learn from their patients...............................................raven

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Right, and it works the same for headaches: we are told to take a regular pain pill like Tyleol when the pain starts.  If we wait and let time pass, it will be harder to get rid of the pain.

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EXACTLY............same is true for us crazy women who elected for natural childbirth...........take the med BEFORE you can't stand the pain, so that it can be managed when you really need it.........don't take it before and all you do is hold it at the level you can't handle it......................................raven

[Noel7]

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@151949 wrote:

@Trinity11 Didn't you say they gave me morphine even when I didn't need it -- the only reason you didn't need it would be if you weren't having pain. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. 

Also - yes - many people have myocardial infarctions and don't have pain . They have arrythmias and that is how their MI is detected. Some people have routine EKGs and old MIs are detected that they were not even aware ever happened. 

Just because you were a patient in a hospital does not qualify you as an expert.

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@151949

Pain treatment today is much different then when you last were a working nurse.

A lot of pain management IN the hospital is up to the patient.  Some of us say we don't need it and the nurses contradict us and say we do.  I know enough to listen to the nurses.  When the pain was bad, I asked for pain medication and got it every time. No evil eye, no questioning my decision.

@Trinity11 and I had heart attacks at the same time in June and had basically the same treatment.

[Trinity11]

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@raven-blackbird wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@Trinity11 Didn't you say they gave me morphine even when I didn't need it -- the only reason you didn't need it would be if you weren't having pain. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. 

Also - yes - many people have myocardial infarctions and don't have pain . They have arrythmias and that is how their MI is detected. Some people have routine EKGs and old MIs are detected that they were not even aware ever happened. 

Just because you were a patient in a hospital does not qualify you as an expert.

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@151949

@Trinity11

the fact her doctor had her on a pain medication, rather she needed it or not, falls under pain management......also, nurses can't order medication, they can only follow doctors orders.....the idea of managing the pain before it gets to a point where all the pain medication in the world can't manage it, is prudent actions by her doctor/nurses...........it will also, like aspirin, thin the blood which is extremely helpful on someone having cardio problems..........which is also another reason why they would want her on the medication rather she felt she needed it or not.


now the fact SHE HAS PERSONALLY faced this issue...........makes her more of an expert then someone who has not.........even doctors learn from their patients...............................................raven

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Thanks, Raven. She likes insulting people and I refuse to engage her further. I never said to her I did not need the morphine rather I replied to her post regarding the appearance of a patient and what they needed based on it.  My fault for ever believing I could engage in a civil conversation with her...

[MarieIG]

While I can understand medical marajuana for the relief of serious illness/ pain under the supervision of a trained physician, I don't understand the benefit of promoting it for recreational use. It is a drug, not without side effects, and should be prescribed for those who need it in cases where the benefits outweigh the risks.

[raven-blackbird]

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@raven-blackbird wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

@Trinity11 Didn't you say they gave me morphine even when I didn't need it -- the only reason you didn't need it would be if you weren't having pain. It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. 

Also - yes - many people have myocardial infarctions and don't have pain . They have arrythmias and that is how their MI is detected. Some people have routine EKGs and old MIs are detected that they were not even aware ever happened. 

Just because you were a patient in a hospital does not qualify you as an expert.

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@151949

@Trinity11

the fact her doctor had her on a pain medication, rather she needed it or not, falls under pain management......also, nurses can't order medication, they can only follow doctors orders.....the idea of managing the pain before it gets to a point where all the pain medication in the world can't manage it, is prudent actions by her doctor/nurses...........it will also, like aspirin, thin the blood which is extremely helpful on someone having cardio problems..........which is also another reason why they would want her on the medication rather she felt she needed it or not.


now the fact SHE HAS PERSONALLY faced this issue...........makes her more of an expert then someone who has not.........even doctors learn from their patients...............................................raven

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Thanks, Raven. She likes insulting people and I refuse to engage her further. I never said to her I did not need the morphine rather I replied to her post regarding the appearance of a patient and what they needed based on it.  My fault for ever believing I could engage in a civil conversation with her...

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@Trinity11

well the whole thing was just plain silly..........what a patient experiences becomes the basis for how doctors treat other patients......if that wasn't the case, big pharm would not have to turn in case studies on medications they are seeking approval for......doctor wouldn't refer back to past cases.....now if that is the case, and it is..............whose the expert here.........the patient who has the first hand experience or the doctor/pharm who is noting the

narative........................................raven

[mstyrion 1]

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

As a nurse we were taught that when a person is in pain the opiates will be used up by the pain receptors and the person will get pain relief but will not get "high" . If the patient appears to be high then they are getting too much medication - the pain receptors are full and the remaining med is making them high. So the solution is to give a lower dose of pain med. Doctors and nurses  have means of assessing the need for pain meds - for instance pain will increase the heart rate - meds will lower it, pupils will respond to light differently, BP, reactions to stimuli, respiratory rate. It isn't all just about the patient saying they are in pain , when they are in pain they will show other signs and a good nurse will assess the total patient & if there are no involuntary signs of pain the nurse should try to hold off on the meds for a while. of course , that's a good nurse - it is certainly easier to just give a pill and so that is what some nurses do - and that is what a patient likes - but that is not good care.

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Thank goodness I had nurses who gave me morphine when I was having my heart attack back in June. I am not a complainer and the nurses I had were insistent I take the morphine every 4 hours whether I wanted it or not. They did not go by my appearance because they all said I looked like the picture of health. Appearances can be deceiving.

Holding off on pain meds can also make break through pain worse where a patient needs a lot more medication than if they were being treated every few hours under the guidance of the prescribing physician.

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So even though you were not having pain they were giving you morphine? How odd. Doctors order pain meds Every 4 hours AS NEEDED - that is not thew same as every 4 hours.

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Where did I say I was not having pain? Have you ever known as a nurse anyone without pain having a myocardial infarction? And no, the morphine was ordered by the cardiologist that was attending.

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Yes, I do know someone who had an MI with very little pain.

Me.

 I had one in July.  There was some chest pain but not enough to require any pain meds.  I had a stent placed and spendt 2 days in the hospital and never took even an OTC pain med. 

So, there it is. Personal experience.  Proof that no two people experience events the same way.  

[raven-blackbird]

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

As a nurse we were taught that when a person is in pain the opiates will be used up by the pain receptors and the person will get pain relief but will not get "high" . If the patient appears to be high then they are getting too much medication - the pain receptors are full and the remaining med is making them high. So the solution is to give a lower dose of pain med. Doctors and nurses  have means of assessing the need for pain meds - for instance pain will increase the heart rate - meds will lower it, pupils will respond to light differently, BP, reactions to stimuli, respiratory rate. It isn't all just about the patient saying they are in pain , when they are in pain they will show other signs and a good nurse will assess the total patient & if there are no involuntary signs of pain the nurse should try to hold off on the meds for a while. of course , that's a good nurse - it is certainly easier to just give a pill and so that is what some nurses do - and that is what a patient likes - but that is not good care.

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Thank goodness I had nurses who gave me morphine when I was having my heart attack back in June. I am not a complainer and the nurses I had were insistent I take the morphine every 4 hours whether I wanted it or not. They did not go by my appearance because they all said I looked like the picture of health. Appearances can be deceiving.

Holding off on pain meds can also make break through pain worse where a patient needs a lot more medication than if they were being treated every few hours under the guidance of the prescribing physician.

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So even though you were not having pain they were giving you morphine? How odd. Doctors order pain meds Every 4 hours AS NEEDED - that is not thew same as every 4 hours.

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Where did I say I was not having pain? Have you ever known as a nurse anyone without pain having a myocardial infarction? And no, the morphine was ordered by the cardiologist that was attending.

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Yes, I do know someone who had an MI with very little pain.

Me.

 I had one in July.  There was some chest pain but not enough to require any pain meds.  I had a stent placed and spendt 2 days in the hospital and never took even an OTC pain med. 

So, there it is. Personal experience.  Proof that no two people experience events the same way.  

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So you DID have  pain, just at a level you felt you could manage.........but by your own word............you had pain

btw, my hubs had major pain and three stents placed...........twice............................................raven

[Noel7]

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

As a nurse we were taught that when a person is in pain the opiates will be used up by the pain receptors and the person will get pain relief but will not get "high" . If the patient appears to be high then they are getting too much medication - the pain receptors are full and the remaining med is making them high. So the solution is to give a lower dose of pain med. Doctors and nurses  have means of assessing the need for pain meds - for instance pain will increase the heart rate - meds will lower it, pupils will respond to light differently, BP, reactions to stimuli, respiratory rate. It isn't all just about the patient saying they are in pain , when they are in pain they will show other signs and a good nurse will assess the total patient & if there are no involuntary signs of pain the nurse should try to hold off on the meds for a while. of course , that's a good nurse - it is certainly easier to just give a pill and so that is what some nurses do - and that is what a patient likes - but that is not good care.

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Thank goodness I had nurses who gave me morphine when I was having my heart attack back in June. I am not a complainer and the nurses I had were insistent I take the morphine every 4 hours whether I wanted it or not. They did not go by my appearance because they all said I looked like the picture of health. Appearances can be deceiving.

Holding off on pain meds can also make break through pain worse where a patient needs a lot more medication than if they were being treated every few hours under the guidance of the prescribing physician.

---

So even though you were not having pain they were giving you morphine? How odd. Doctors order pain meds Every 4 hours AS NEEDED - that is not thew same as every 4 hours.

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Where did I say I was not having pain? Have you ever known as a nurse anyone without pain having a myocardial infarction? And no, the morphine was ordered by the cardiologist that was attending.

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Yes, I do know someone who had an MI with very little pain.

Me.

 I had one in July.  There was some chest pain but not enough to require any pain meds.  I had a stent placed and spendt 2 days in the hospital and never took even an OTC pain med. 

So, there it is. Personal experience.  Proof that no two people experience events the same way.  

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Hi @mstyrion 1

I didn't know you had an MI... of course this is also the first time I mentioned I had one three months ago, also. 

I hope you're OK and healing nicely.

I am proof the same person doesn't have two alike.  This second one was all in my ribs, nothing like the one I had before, so I didn't go in for two days.  Man, I really got lectured for that.  It did hurt a lot, though, I thought it was costochondritis which I've had several times.

((((( mstyrion )))))

[mstyrion 1]

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@raven-blackbird wrote:

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

---

@151949 wrote:

As a nurse we were taught that when a person is in pain the opiates will be used up by the pain receptors and the person will get pain relief but will not get "high" . If the patient appears to be high then they are getting too much medication - the pain receptors are full and the remaining med is making them high. So the solution is to give a lower dose of pain med. Doctors and nurses  have means of assessing the need for pain meds - for instance pain will increase the heart rate - meds will lower it, pupils will respond to light differently, BP, reactions to stimuli, respiratory rate. It isn't all just about the patient saying they are in pain , when they are in pain they will show other signs and a good nurse will assess the total patient & if there are no involuntary signs of pain the nurse should try to hold off on the meds for a while. of course , that's a good nurse - it is certainly easier to just give a pill and so that is what some nurses do - and that is what a patient likes - but that is not good care.

---

Thank goodness I had nurses who gave me morphine when I was having my heart attack back in June. I am not a complainer and the nurses I had were insistent I take the morphine every 4 hours whether I wanted it or not. They did not go by my appearance because they all said I looked like the picture of health. Appearances can be deceiving.

Holding off on pain meds can also make break through pain worse where a patient needs a lot more medication than if they were being treated every few hours under the guidance of the prescribing physician.

---

So even though you were not having pain they were giving you morphine? How odd. Doctors order pain meds Every 4 hours AS NEEDED - that is not thew same as every 4 hours.

---

Where did I say I was not having pain? Have you ever known as a nurse anyone without pain having a myocardial infarction? And no, the morphine was ordered by the cardiologist that was attending.

---

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Yes, I do know someone who had an MI with very little pain.

Me.

 I had one in July.  There was some chest pain but not enough to require any pain meds.  I had a stent placed and spendt 2 days in the hospital and never took even an OTC pain med. 

So, there it is. Personal experience.  Proof that no two people experience events the same way.  

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So you DID have  pain, just at a level you felt you could manage.........but by your own word............you had pain

btw, my hubs had major pain and three stents placed...........twice............................................raven

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I'm not going to parse words with you, BBR. Pain wasn't exactly the right word, It was more a heaviness.  You wouldn't know what I'm talking about because you haven't experienced an MI.

Your husband having major pain is certainly not the gold standard for everyone in the world.  This is a ridiculous argument and I'll not have it with you.

[Trinity11]

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@mstyrion 1 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

---

@151949 wrote:

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@Trinity11 wrote:

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@151949 wrote:

As a nurse we were taught that when a person is in pain the opiates will be used up by the pain receptors and the person will get pain relief but will not get "high" . If the patient appears to be high then they are getting too much medication - the pain receptors are full and the remaining med is making them high. So the solution is to give a lower dose of pain med. Doctors and nurses  have means of assessing the need for pain meds - for instance pain will increase the heart rate - meds will lower it, pupils will respond to light differently, BP, reactions to stimuli, respiratory rate. It isn't all just about the patient saying they are in pain , when they are in pain they will show other signs and a good nurse will assess the total patient & if there are no involuntary signs of pain the nurse should try to hold off on the meds for a while. of course , that's a good nurse - it is certainly easier to just give a pill and so that is what some nurses do - and that is what a patient likes - but that is not good care.

---

Thank goodness I had nurses who gave me morphine when I was having my heart attack back in June. I am not a complainer and the nurses I had were insistent I take the morphine every 4 hours whether I wanted it or not. They did not go by my appearance because they all said I looked like the picture of health. Appearances can be deceiving.

Holding off on pain meds can also make break through pain worse where a patient needs a lot more medication than if they were being treated every few hours under the guidance of the prescribing physician.

---

So even though you were not having pain they were giving you morphine? How odd. Doctors order pain meds Every 4 hours AS NEEDED - that is not thew same as every 4 hours.

---

Where did I say I was not having pain? Have you ever known as a nurse anyone without pain having a myocardial infarction? And no, the morphine was ordered by the cardiologist that was attending.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I do know someone who had an MI with very little pain.

Me.

 I had one in July.  There was some chest pain but not enough to require any pain meds.  I had a stent placed and spendt 2 days in the hospital and never took even an OTC pain med. 

So, there it is. Personal experience.  Proof that no two people experience events the same way.  

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Yes but you still had pain. Some pain but pain just the same. My response to her meant that nurses can't just use the appearance of a patient whether they should give meds. I also know that the final decision is the cardiologist attending.

 I hope your recovery is going well. And speaking of no two heart attacks are the same....very true. If John hadn't posted about women and back pain as a symptom, I probably wouldn't be responding to this thread...