Community Chat

[Pashmina_1]

On 3/29/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/29/2015 SugarNSpice said:

On 3/27/2015 Sister Golden Hair said:

We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.

I'm sorry but that is a load of malarkey.

"We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan."

I think this goes beyond the concept of "predestination," taking a hard nosedive into hard determinism, "a view on free will which holds that determinism is true, and that it is incompatible with free will, and, therefore, that free will does not exist." [Definition provided by google]

I don't believe in predestination at all. As I asked a poster on another thread, why bother looking both ways when you cross the street or locking your doors at night or driving safely if you think your life has all been laid out for you in advance? There would be no need.

[rarejan]

On 3/29/2015 SnowPink said:

On 3/29/2015 rarejan said:

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

You may want to rethink that. There are scriptures that refer to God's emotions. Here are a few...

Genesis 6:6

Proverbs 27:11

Jeremiah 7:31; 19:5

Only if one's premise is the Bible in its literal translation. There are those who don't take the Bible literally.

I don't know anyone who takes the entire Bible as a literal translation. If that was true, they would believe that Jesus is really a lamb, we are really sheep and goats and the communion bread and cup is actually Jesus' body and blood.

I was commenting on the passages posted.

[Pashmina_1]

The ones in Jeremiah speak of God's heart, which shows He does have feelings, since the heart is related to feelings.

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

On 3/29/2015 SuiGeneris said:

On 3/29/2015 SugarNSpice said:

On 3/27/2015 Sister Golden Hair said:

We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.

I'm sorry but that is a load of malarkey.

"We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan."

I think this goes beyond the concept of "predestination," taking a hard nosedive into hard determinism, "a view on free will which holds that determinism is true, and that it is incompatible with free will, and, therefore, that free will does not exist." [Definition provided by google]

I don't believe in predestination at all. As I asked a poster on another thread, why bother looking both ways when you cross the street or locking your doors at night or driving safely if you think your life has all been laid out for you in advance? There would be no need.

Acting as the devil's advocate [pun intended], how do you know for certain if you didn't look both ways when you crossed the street . . . and . . . got hit by a car . . . that that was or wasn't what God had "predestined" for your life. And, you didn't lock your door at night . . . and . . . got robbed (or worse) that that was or wasn't predestined for your life.

Or possibly, on the other hand, God had predestined that despite your lack of personal safety measures, He would save you in spite of yourself . . . no car would be coming when you crossed the street and no criminal would invade your unlocked house. That that was what He had planned in advance for you.

How do you know which outcome He has planned for you from the beginning of time? And, how is free will a component of what God has predestined for your life? Those are really difficult questions, but I don't think disbelieving that predestination exists would bode well for any Bible-believing Christian:

Romans 8:29-30 - For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

In Christianity, it's called the Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation): election, foreknowledge, predestination, redemption, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification. Most Christians believe predestination is essential to one's salvation.

[Pashmina_1]

I don't but if you would like to experiment with your theory be my guest and go right ahead. I prefer to err on the side of caution. God gave me a brain for a reason and I plan to keep on using it.

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

I don't but if you would like to experiment with your theory be my guest and go right ahead. I prefer to err on the side of caution. God gave me a brain for a reason and I plan to keep on using it.

No, thank you. I think God has predestined [] that I would be wise enough not to "test" Him.

Matthew 4: 6-7 - "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'" [From Deuteronomy 6:16]

[Pashmina_1]

As far as "Christianity" goes I don't subscribe to the average run of the mill nor do I rely on other people's words for it, I study and determine for myself what is truth. If it does not ring true, it probably is not true.

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

As far as "Christianity" goes I don't subscribe to the average run of the mill nor do I rely on other people's words for it, I study and determine for myself what is truth. If it does not ring true, it probably is not true.

So you're a proponent of Occam's Razor?

"The simplest of competing theories is to be preferred to the more complex."

Or, as defined by an astronomer from the movie "Contact," starring Jodie Foster:

"The scientific principle that, all things being equal, the simplest answer is usually the right one."

ETA: I was thinking of different methods of reasoning, i.e., inductive vs. deductive, and found an additional method that pertains to your methodology:

Abductive reasoning usually starts with an incomplete set of observations and proceeds to the likeliest possible explanation for the group of observations. It is based on making and testing hypotheses using the best information available. It often entails making an educated guess after observing a phenomenon for which there is no clear explanation.

[Pashmina_1]

Not entirely. More like ""The logical or sensible answer is usually the right one.""

[SuiGeneris]

On 3/29/2015 Pashmina said:

Not entirely. More like "The logical or sensible answer is usually the right one."

I like what Sherlock Holmes [via Arthur Conan Doyle] says about finding truth through deductive reasoning:

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

ETA: Since this may be the last post on this thread, I wanted to thank you, Pashmina, for a thought-provoking, interesting thread. I have always enjoyed quotes and thinking about what they mean or what the author intended when he/she said it. No hard feelings?