Community Chat

[Sooner]

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@Laura14 wrote:

I have no issue with CC. I think it is ridiculous to judge a 15th century man by 21st century standards some of which are no better 6 centuries later in how we treat one another today.  

Most important for me, it is Italian American heritage day so I am actually celebrating myself and all of my fellow Paisans too.  Ciao gente!  

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@Laura14  I'm positive that the indigenous peoples CC hurt would not agree that it is "ridiculous".  Of course, they are not around to speak up.

Whether the 15th century or the 21st century, cruelty to others is the same no matter who did it and to whom.

There are no expiration dates.

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@Laura14  The important thing is that people are just people, good or bad or in between.  It doesn't matter their skin color, politics, ethnic origins, or religion.  Good eggs and rotten ones among us all.

It is also important to face up to history and put it in the context of the times.  Many of the "indegenous peoples" had wars and fought over things and took and kept people for slaves too.  The important thing is really that none of us are beyond being the simple humans we are underneath it all.

No group of people are or were perfect.  Just take each one of us for who we are and dont' make us saints or sinners for what our ancestors did.  It has so little to do with who we are. 

[Cakers3]

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@Laura14 wrote:

As a working person, I vote to leave our holidays alone.  Otherwise, I'll have none and I like my paid time off.  

If we all got nuts about every little thing....

New Year's encourages drinking and other types of uncivil celebrations plus it's past most of our bedtimes which leads to drowsy and drunk driving so everyone just have a private moment alone with your calendar and flip it so we all stay alive on the roads.  

MLK had alleged mistresses which means don't even talk about President's Day and the history of some of our founding fathers.  Another two holidays gone.

Memorial Day glorifies war and you can probably lump in Veteran's Day with the same alleged atrocities commited by the US government against other sovereign nations.  Throw in Independence Day which also celebrates a war and war heroes and we just can't have that kind of celebration of violence.  

That leaves us with Columbus Day and Thanksgiving which are an affront to Native Americans and we've already torn apart Christmas pretty well as non-inclusive towards other religions.

That leaves Labor Day as the sole holiday left but none of you enjoy your customer service reps so spit on them.  They don't deserve the day off!   

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@Laura14  Having an ALLEGED mistress doesn't negate what Dr. King Jr. accomplished.  Nor do I remember him slaughtering natives.  And why single him out?  The Kennedys are the shining stars when it comes to adultery.

Memorial Day does NOT glorify war.  It remembers those who gave so that we can continue to express ourselves (the mods here aside), no matter how ignorant the remark.

Watch out-DH, DS, and my Dad were/are vets.  Nothing was glorious about what they saw.

So stop whining about your day off.

[Laura14]

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@Laura14  Having an ALLEGED mistress doesn't negate what Dr. King Jr. accomplished.  Nor do I remember him slaughtering natives.  And why single him out?  The Kennedys are the shining stars when it comes to adultery.

Memorial Day does NOT glorify war.  It remembers those who gave so that we can continue to express ourselves (the mods here aside), no matter how ignorant the remark.

Watch out-DH, DS, and my Dad were/are vets.  Nothing was glorious about what they saw.

So stop whining about your day off.

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@Cakers3  Nor does what Columbus did negate his accomplishment of sailing into the unknown thinking he was going to fall off the face of the earth literally.

MLK has a solo holiday and the Kennedy's are included in President's Day so I've heard.  Wasn't alive for either man but I did ace history in school.

And your final comments about how ridiculous this whole conversation is was exactly my point.  Thank you for getting it.  

[dex]

You must admit we have come a long way but there is always more that could be done.

[beckyb1012]

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@dex wrote:

You must admit we have come a long way but there is always more that could be done.

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We have come a long way and there is nothing wrong with looking behind us especially to learn how to be better.  My fear is that so many want to sweep away all our history and holidays, the government provides or pays all our bills, and our children only go to school two days a week for a couple of hours just learning only how to type with their thumbs.  I miss the days of just sitting on the porch in the evening with the family @dex. 

[cherry]

@Cakers3  Emmet Till is quite possibly a shirt tail relation of mine. I made the discovery , while I was researching family history online  ,and at a small family graveyard, in Ind.  It is something I will never  understand, but ,I only hold those who did the deed and the woman who lied about him responsible.  I don't feel everyone is evil because of their actions

[Cakers3]

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@Laura14 wrote:

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@Cakers3 wrote:

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@Laura14  Having an ALLEGED mistress doesn't negate what Dr. King Jr. accomplished.  Nor do I remember him slaughtering natives.  And why single him out?  The Kennedys are the shining stars when it comes to adultery.

Memorial Day does NOT glorify war.  It remembers those who gave so that we can continue to express ourselves (the mods here aside), no matter how ignorant the remark.

Watch out-DH, DS, and my Dad were/are vets.  Nothing was glorious about what they saw.

So stop whining about your day off.

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@Cakers3  Nor does what Columbus did negate his accomplishment of sailing into the unknown thinking he was going to fall off the face of the earth literally.

MLK has a solo holiday and the Kennedy's are included in President's Day so I've heard.  Wasn't alive for either man but I did ace history in school.

And your final comments about how ridiculous this whole conversation is was exactly my point.  Thank you for getting it.  

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@Laura14  I'm pretty sure somebody who claims to have "aced" history in school would not have pointed out alleged mistresses of Dr. King Jr. as the reason to get rid of President's Day.  Unless somewhere I missed Dr. King Jr.'s presidency.

I'm also pretty sure that a person who "aced" history would know that Columbus underestimated the circumference of the earth and that is why he missed the point of where he landed.  The round earth theory was put in motion by Pythagoras. long before Columbus.  Columbus didn't believe the earth was flat.  He believed its surface was wider but not flat.  Math errors.

And no, you missed what I meant about expressing ourselves.

[Laura14]

@Cakers3  You missed the whole point.  

[bikerbabe]

Columbus really did not do anything deserving of a holiday in his name, not that I’ve ever gotten the day off.

[esmerelda]

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@bathina wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

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@bathina wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

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@bathina wrote:

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@esmerelda wrote:

@Cakers3 Speaking of Vikings, how did they treat the people they found here?

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Why? Do we celebrate Viking Day in this country?

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@bathinaSo that's the criteria that determines if someone is good or bad...whether there is a day on which we celebrate them?  Are you saying Columbus' treatment of the people would be okay if we didn't celebrate Columbus Day?

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I'm saying we don't celebrate murderers, slavers and rapists who have wiped out 50% of an indigenous population as heroes. What happened, happened. We can't change it. It wasn't right, but brutality was the m.o. during that time. We can avoid lionizing that brutality by declaring holidays or erecting statues in their names. When we know better, we do better.

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@bathinaSome say there are days set aside and statues erected to slavers and murderers.  Does the "when we know better, we do better" apply to them?  Do we apply the "m.o. during that time" to them?  Or do we condemn them for being men of their time and try to erase all evidence of them?

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Please see my post to @beckyb1012. Perhaps that will help you understand how statues and holidays impact people who have been harmed by those being touted as "heroes". 

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@bathinaUnless I'm mistaken, the subjects of holidays and statues are all dead...the ones we're speaking of here...CC and slavers and murderers.  And any people they harmed are all dead.

What they did then was done.  Let's move on and do better.