Community Chat

[sidsmom]

 
@phoenixbrd wrote:

"Organic"..."Grass Fed"..."Free Range"..."Cage Free"

Makes no difference if you eat meat/dairy with these high dollar labels.

And ask the animal who was mercilessly slaughtered and lived a torturous life,,,

made no difference.

@sidsmom   You posted that you were in 4H.  Selling a beloved prized animal that you develop a relationship with to the slaughterhouse must be life altering. A child bearing the weight of that decision is just devastating.  Not that it is any better for an adult.

 There is a film about a pig farmer I think called "The Last Pig" and he said he just could no longer send them to the processor.  The pigs followed him around like friends and he said they were so gentle and smart.  They developed a relationship and he felt he betrayed them every time he had to sell them.  The good news, he woke up.

---

@phoenixbrd

Yes, I was in 4-H. I raised pigs & my siblings raised cattle.

The raising stage for cattle was about 2x as long for cattle to pigs

so the cattle separation was brutal. But the pigs were so intelligent,

the curiosity was evident.

For those interested, The Lat Pig is a documentary.

It appears Bob Comis is a smaller, ‘local farmer’...which I believe

is harder on the animals than the large factory hog farms.

https://youtu.be/2LdqogtTHtA

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-last-pig_us_563918e4e4b0b24aee47d55b

If one is saying organic grains have nothing to do with animal

farming, they are wrong. As of this writing, they are not saying what

the grains were used for, but 75%~ of the corn/soybeans produced

are NOT for human consumption...they are used for animal food.

I would guess these criminals were no different. They probably

supply organic animal farmers with their tainted grain.

Organic meat/dairy/eggs were probably the victims.

Dr. John McDougall has always said organic is just...’noise’.

It gives people the illusion they are eating better, but they’re not.

Eating a conventional plant-only lifestyle will reward one ten-fold

than organic meat/dairy/eggs. 

[novamc1]

I'm not "villifying" hogs........I'm simply providing a more accurate picture of what apparently is another view of their genre as "gentle and smart", when hungry and aggressive might be a better description.

I do get uncomfortable when people villify the meat production industry which feeds people around the world.  It seems some people are unaware of what happens in the wild.

  If you've ever watched the slow and agonizing slaughter of  a mourning dove or a chipmunk at the mercy of crows or foxes (as I have in my own backyard), you will find that Mother Nature and the wild animal kingdom  is less "humane" than humans. 

[QueenDanceALot]

---

@novamc1 wrote:

I'm not "villifying" hogs........I'm simply providing a more accurate picture of what apparently is another view of their genre as "gentle and smart", when hungry and aggressive might be a better description.

I do get uncomfortable when people villify the meat production industry which feeds people around the world.  It seems some people are unaware of what happens in the wild.

  If you've ever watched the slow and agonizing slaughter of  a mourning dove or a chipmunk at the mercy of crows or foxes (as I have in my own backyard), you will find that Mother Nature and the wild animal kingdom  is less "humane" than humans. 

---

Oh, I am aware.

I also don't understand why we, as humans, should emulate what happens with animals in "the wild".

And yes, I do think you are trying to justify horrific treatment by vilifying.

Happens a lot in various areas of life. 

[sidsmom]

---

@novamc1 wrote:

I'm not "villifying" hogs........I'm simply providing a more accurate picture of what apparently is another view of their genre as "gentle and smart", when hungry and aggressive might be a better description.

I do get uncomfortable when people villify the meat production industry which feeds people around the world.  It seems some people are unaware of what happens in the wild.

---

@novamc1

If the pigs you saw were ‘huge beasts’, greater than zero chance 

they were not for slaughter.  The birth-to-slaughter period is very 

short, even in smaller farming operations. Another point,

with factory farming, those animals never see daylight, so

I’m guessing what you saw were sows..probably upset someone

is taking their offspring, which has been done numerous times.

Unfortunately meat production industry does not

‘feed people around the world.’  If we took the food we give to

the animal to feed a small % of people...and give that food 

directly to the people, world hunger would greatly diminish 

and probably the world would cease to have modern day illnesses

like heart disease, diabetes and obesity.

[Cakers3]

---

@sidsmom wrote:

 
@phoenixbrd wrote:

"Organic"..."Grass Fed"..."Free Range"..."Cage Free"

Makes no difference if you eat meat/dairy with these high dollar labels.

And ask the animal who was mercilessly slaughtered and lived a torturous life,,,

made no difference.

@sidsmom   You posted that you were in 4H.  Selling a beloved prized animal that you develop a relationship with to the slaughterhouse must be life altering. A child bearing the weight of that decision is just devastating.  Not that it is any better for an adult.

 There is a film about a pig farmer I think called "The Last Pig" and he said he just could no longer send them to the processor.  The pigs followed him around like friends and he said they were so gentle and smart.  They developed a relationship and he felt he betrayed them every time he had to sell them.  The good news, he woke up.

---

@phoenixbrd

Yes, I was in 4-H. I raised pigs & my siblings raised cattle.

The raising stage for cattle was about 2x as long for cattle to pigs

so the cattle separation was brutal. But the pigs were so intelligent,

the curiosity was evident.

For those interested, The Lat Pig is a documentary.

It appears Bob Comis is a smaller, ‘local farmer’...which I believe

is harder on the animals than the large factory hog farms.

https://youtu.be/2LdqogtTHtA

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-last-pig_us_563918e4e4b0b24aee47d55b

If one is saying organic grains have nothing to do with animal

farming, they are wrong. As of this writing, they are not saying what

the grains were used for, but 75%~ of the corn/soybeans produced

are NOT for human consumption...they are used for animal food.

I would guess these criminals were no different. They probably

supply organic animal farmers with their tainted grain.

Organic meat/dairy/eggs were probably the victims.

Dr. John McDougall has always said organic is just...’noise’.

It gives people the illusion they are eating better, but they’re not.

Eating a conventional plant-only lifestyle will reward one ten-fold

than organic meat/dairy/eggs. 

---

@sidsmomAnd yet McDougall has also said  in his OWN home they strive for organic.  He also said if asked he will answer people who ask  to buy organic as much as possible.

That is the conflict; tout a plant based food that is organic for you and yours but for the rest of the people it's just "noise".

[sidsmom]

---

@Cakers3 wrote:

---

@sidsmom wrote:

 
@phoenixbrd wrote:

"Organic"..."Grass Fed"..."Free Range"..."Cage Free"

Makes no difference if you eat meat/dairy with these high dollar labels.

And ask the animal who was mercilessly slaughtered and lived a torturous life,,,

made no difference.

@sidsmom   You posted that you were in 4H.  Selling a beloved prized animal that you develop a relationship with to the slaughterhouse must be life altering. A child bearing the weight of that decision is just devastating.  Not that it is any better for an adult.

 There is a film about a pig farmer I think called "The Last Pig" and he said he just could no longer send them to the processor.  The pigs followed him around like friends and he said they were so gentle and smart.  They developed a relationship and he felt he betrayed them every time he had to sell them.  The good news, he woke up.

---

@phoenixbrd

Yes, I was in 4-H. I raised pigs & my siblings raised cattle.

The raising stage for cattle was about 2x as long for cattle to pigs

so the cattle separation was brutal. But the pigs were so intelligent,

the curiosity was evident.

For those interested, The Lat Pig is a documentary.

It appears Bob Comis is a smaller, ‘local farmer’...which I believe

is harder on the animals than the large factory hog farms.

https://youtu.be/2LdqogtTHtA

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-last-pig_us_563918e4e4b0b24aee47d55b

If one is saying organic grains have nothing to do with animal

farming, they are wrong. As of this writing, they are not saying what

the grains were used for, but 75%~ of the corn/soybeans produced

are NOT for human consumption...they are used for animal food.

I would guess these criminals were no different. They probably

supply organic animal farmers with their tainted grain.

Organic meat/dairy/eggs were probably the victims.

Dr. John McDougall has always said organic is just...’noise’.

It gives people the illusion they are eating better, but they’re not.

Eating a conventional plant-only lifestyle will reward one ten-fold

than organic meat/dairy/eggs. 

---

@sidsmomAnd yet McDougall has also said  in his OWN home they strive for organic.  He also said if asked he will answer people who ask  to buy organic as much as possible.

That is the conflict; tout a plant based food that is organic for you and yours but for the rest of the people it's just "noise".

---

Until you’ve been eating 100% Plant Based like Dr. McDougall

for the last 50 years, yes....’organic’ is just noise. ‘Organic’ meat

is still a 1,000x worse than any conventional plant source.

And no, I don’t purposefully buy organic. And yes, I will still ‘tout’ plant based food..for many reasons. In this case, environmental &

ethical reasons.  And no, there’s no conflict. Plant based always wins.

I just present the facts...if one wants to read it with a negative attitude,

I have no control over that.

[QueenDanceALot]

I DO strive to support organic and sustainable farming practices by buying from local farmers as much as possible and knowing who these farmers are.

Can I do this 100% all of the time?  Well, of course not.  But I do the best I can with what we've got.

I do not believe that supporting organic practices is "just noise".

[sidsmom]

---

@QueenDanceALot wrote:

I DO strive to support organic and sustainable farming practices by buying from local farmers as much as possible and knowing who these farmers are.

Can I do this 100% all of the time?  Well, of course not.  But I do the best I can with what we've got.

I do not believe that supporting organic practices is "just noise".

---

It’s noise when people are still consuming animal products and animal byproducts.  To eat an expensive organic salad with a T-Bone steak is ‘noise’.  To eat organic eggs and milk every morning is just ridiculous organic ‘noise.’

When people are still sick from organic products, that’s where the

word ‘noise’ is really highlighted.  I really DO think people want

to eat healthy & live a life more well, but when lies are presented

and $$$ is spent, that’s when I get upset.  And then people will use

the excuse of ‘plant based is too expensive’...no, just use your 

energy to move the ‘heaviest rocks.’ Switch to a conventional 

100% plant based diet...THEN, .organic can be introduced.

Until then, it’s ‘noise’. 

[QueenDanceALot]

@sidsmom

I think we will just have to disagree on this issue as we disagree on the low fat plan being best for all.

[Sweetbay magnolia]

I recommend Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, and The Botany of Desire.  I would imagine there are those who would consider these old news.

Just food for thought.  Parallel lines never do meet but when is life a straight line?