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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus


@wvufan wrote:

@stevieb wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

22 is a child? Ridiculous.


Yep... I was sort of wondering about that upper age limit too... I believe by almost any standard, childhood ends at 18 at the latest.. Technically, childhood ends when adolescence begins, but I believe one might still be considered a child until 18...


When my son turned 18, he was no longer able to be seen by his Pediatric NP. He had to be scheduled to see a regular MD or PA. 

So this is odd that they included 18-22 year olds. 


@stevieb Some states consider a a Child up to age 24.  When one sees the word "child" we picture someone very young (for me its under age 10) however each individual state has a different classification regarding what age one is considered a "child" 

 

That is what makes all of the statistics regarding the number of "children" with COVID are somewhat missleading.  I saw a headline lastweek indicating that there were 100K children who had been diagnosed with COVID.  At first looking at that headline I'm picturing loads of elementary age children who were diagnosed.  After reading the article the age range is identified.  That doesn't dismiss the 100K but after reading the ages it puts it more into perspective because Yes I expect that the 18-25 year olds to increase in case numbers.

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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus


@stevieb wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

22 is a child? Ridiculous.


Yep... I was sort of wondering about that upper age limit too... I believe by almost any standard, childhood ends at 18 at the latest.. Technically, childhood ends when adolescence begins, but I believe one might still be considered a child until 18...


Anything to get the numbers they want to push their agenda. 

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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus


@mimom wrote:

@wvufan wrote:

@stevieb wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

22 is a child? Ridiculous.


Yep... I was sort of wondering about that upper age limit too... I believe by almost any standard, childhood ends at 18 at the latest.. Technically, childhood ends when adolescence begins, but I believe one might still be considered a child until 18...


When my son turned 18, he was no longer able to be seen by his Pediatric NP. He had to be scheduled to see a regular MD or PA. 

So this is odd that they included 18-22 year olds. 


@stevieb Some states consider a a Child up to age 24.  When one sees the word "child" we picture someone very young (for me its under age 10) however each individual state has a different classification regarding what age one is considered a "child" 

 

That is what makes all of the statistics regarding the number of "children" with COVID are somewhat missleading.  I saw a headline lastweek indicating that there were 100K children who had been diagnosed with COVID.  At first looking at that headline I'm picturing loads of elementary age children who were diagnosed.  After reading the article the age range is identified.  That doesn't dismiss the 100K but after reading the ages it puts it more into perspective because Yes I expect that the 18-25 year olds to increase in case numbers.


@mimom  Are we talking here about age defined for insurance purposes? I guess I'm pulling my definition from child development literature rather than statutory guidelines. A state might well define someone of 24 as being a child, but most would probably not tend to agree, especially given that 18 is pretty universally accepted as the 'age of majority' and the age to begin voting... And, of course, 21 is the minimum age to purchase alcohol and, in some places, to gamble...


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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

[ Edited ]

@LipstickDiva wrote:

My issue with this is they only tested 192 children and 49 tested positive.  That's 25%.  I'm not sure how this is so shocking.  

 

I'm not a doctor but this doesn't seem like a very large study.  

 

Kids have always been known to be little germ factories.  


__________________________________________________________

 

@LipstickDiva, this is a descriptive study. 192 subjects for  a descriptive study is certainly an acceptable population size.  This isn't a controlled clinical trial.  2 different types of studies.

 

If you actually read what is posted, out of 192 subjects 49 tested positive, but another 18 subjects developed multisystem inflammatory syndrome so those 18 were positive for coronavirus.  

 

So total of subjects in this study with coronavirus = 67 which would be 35% of subjects.

 

However, this is a descriptive study so they were not trying to establish incidence but examine viral load of those positive for coronavirus in the younger population and to examine ACE2 expression and the impact of age on ACE2 expression in a population of school aged individuals.


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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

[ Edited ]

@prettychis wrote:

@stevieb wrote:

@kitcat51 wrote:

22 is a child? Ridiculous.


Yep... I was sort of wondering about that upper age limit too... I believe by almost any standard, childhood ends at 18 at the latest.. Technically, childhood ends when adolescence begins, but I believe one might still be considered a child until 18...


Anything to get the numbers they want to push their agenda. 


___________________________________________________

 

@prettychis, since the study more than demonstrated increased ACE2 level activity increased with age from 5 year olds to 22 year olds it certainly revealed very useful information for those medical professionals actually treating covid-19 and those researchers that are trying to develop treatment modalities predicated on trying to limit ACE2 activity in people with covid.

 

Seems to me someone else is pushing an agenda and it isn't the researchers  here conducting this study.  They have really made some signficant contributions to learning more about covid-19.  


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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

[ Edited ]

Marp,

 

Thanks for posting the information about this study.

 

I hope what people take away from this study is that viral load in asymptomatic younger individuals is actually higher than those hospitalized with covid-19.  Certainly useful information for medical professionals as they attempt to help schools and colleges manage a back to school situation.  

 

It is also significant that this study did follow ACE2 expression activity.  A major theory up to this point has been that adults are more susceptible to severe covid-19 infection since ACE2 expression activity decreases with age.  But there had not been a study looking at ACE2 expression activity in children.  As you know, ACE 2 expression activity when it is high would interfere with the coronavirus being able to replicate enough to produce severe infection.

 

Very interesting that they documented in this sample that ACE2 expression activity even decreased by the time the subjects in this study were 22 years of age.  

 

Hopefully this will help researchers that are working on treatment modalities that reduce ACE2 activity.  

 

This study will undoubtedly provide more basis for research funding for researchers. So glad they will be able to include discussion about this study in future grant proposals to further research treatments for covid-19 as well as those that want to continue research on the impact of age and possible other factors as it relates to ACE2 activity.

 

 


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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus


@Porcelain wrote:

Obviously they included college age "kids." That explains the age range.

 

In TN, with some schools in session for 2 weeks now, we have over 2,000 kids (aged 5-18) infected that we know of. Most schools have the option to put kids in classroom or virtual. School officials are very concerned and are already struggling with the realities of starting and stopping in person classes repeatedly.

 

Anecdote from my life

This was just a few weeks ago. My brother in law's whole family caught Covid from their 14 year old. The adults, in their 40s, had significant symptoms that were debilitating and made it hard to parent, but didn't require hospitalization. They are still coping with lingering aftereffects. The youngest had no symptoms. The 14 year old had moderate to mild symptoms.

 

All were infected and contagious and would not have gotten tested as early as they did if the 14 year old hadn't shown symptoms. (I have not even discussed with them the potential health issues the teen may face down the road because of it. But I am sure they are well aware.) They thought they were taking adequate precautions but the teen was playing sports and they think that's how it happened.

 

Once one household member gets Covid, everyone does. Unless extreme measures are taken.


-------   
How do they know, that one of the adults, didn't infect everyone, but the 14 year old became symptomatic first? 

I don't understand, why you think the 14 year old, may face, health hazards down the road? What about the adults, and the little one, who was infected, but, asymptomatic? 

Hopefully, they'll all recover, without future incident. 

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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

[ Edited ]

@SuhseK wrote:

@Porcelain wrote:

Obviously they included college age "kids." That explains the age range.

 

In TN, with some schools in session for 2 weeks now, we have over 2,000 kids (aged 5-18) infected that we know of. Most schools have the option to put kids in classroom or virtual. School officials are very concerned and are already struggling with the realities of starting and stopping in person classes repeatedly.

 

Anecdote from my life

This was just a few weeks ago. My brother in law's whole family caught Covid from their 14 year old. The adults, in their 40s, had significant symptoms that were debilitating and made it hard to parent, but didn't require hospitalization. They are still coping with lingering aftereffects. The youngest had no symptoms. The 14 year old had moderate to mild symptoms.

 

All were infected and contagious and would not have gotten tested as early as they did if the 14 year old hadn't shown symptoms. (I have not even discussed with them the potential health issues the teen may face down the road because of it. But I am sure they are well aware.) They thought they were taking adequate precautions but the teen was playing sports and they think that's how it happened.

 

Once one household member gets Covid, everyone does. Unless extreme measures are taken.


-------   
How do they know, that one of the adults, didn't infect everyone, but the 14 year old became symptomatic first? 

I don't understand, why you think the 14 year old, may face, health hazards down the road? What about the adults, and the little one, who was infected, but, asymptomatic? 

Hopefully, they'll all recover, without future incident. 


They don't know for sure. But he was playing hockey and said those he played with weren't perfect about following every guideline.

 

There are continuing health issues such as lung damage and brain and heart problems for some people who have had Covid even after they are considered to be part of the "recovered" statistics. The adults had blinding headaches and loss of taste and smell, among other symptoms.

 

(Edited to add: Of course I hope, assume, and pray they will all continue to fully recover with no after effects. And if anyone is disgusting enough to imply I would wish any such thing on anyone, I don't have acceptable words to describe my opinon of that way of thinking. I should not have to say any of this. And this is not directed at you @SuhseK.)

 

Trigger warning! To everyone, please do not read the below if scary medical info freaks you out.

 

Long after the fire of a Covid-19 infection, mental and neurological effects can still smolder

 

Early on, patients with both mild and severe Covid-19 say they can’t breathe. Now, after recovering from the infection, some of them say they can’t think.

 

Even people who were never sick enough to go to a hospital, much less lie in an ICU bed with a ventilator, report feeling something as ill-defined as “Covid fog” or as frightening as numbed limbs. They’re unable to carry on with their lives, exhausted by crossing the street, fumbling for words, or laid low by depression, anxiety, or PTSD.

 

As many as 1 in 3 patients recovering from Covid-19 could experience neurological or psychological after-effects of their infections, experts told STAT, reflecting a growing consensus that the disease can have lasting impact on the brain. Beyond the fatigue felt by “long haulers” as they heal post-Covid, these neuropsychological problems range from headache, dizziness, and lingering loss of smell or taste to mood disorders and deeper cognitive impairment. Dating to early reports from China and Europe, clinicians have seen people suffer from depression and anxiety. Muscle weakness and nerve damage sometimes mean they can’t walk.

 
“It’s not only an acute problem. This is going to be a chronic illness,” said Wes Ely, a pulmonologist and critical care physician at Vanderbilt University Medical Center who studies delirium during intensive care stays. “The problem for these people is not over when they leave the hospital.”
 

 

Doctors have concerns that patients may also suffer lasting damage to their heart, kidneys, and liver from the inflammation and blood clotting the disease causes.

 

No one can yet tell patients with neurological complications when, or if, they’ll get better, as doctors and scientists strive to learn more about this coronavirus with each passing day. Their guideposts are the experience they’ve gained treating other viruses and delirium after ICU stays, sparse results from brain autopsies, and interviews with patients who know something is just not right.

 

“We would say that perhaps between 30% and 50% of people with an infection that has clinical manifestations are going to have some form of mental health issues,” said Teodor Postolache, professor of psychiatry at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. “That could be anxiety or depression but also nonspecific symptoms that include fatigue, sleep, and waking abnormalities, a general sense of not being at your best, not being fully recovered in terms of the abilities of performing academically, occupationally, potentially physically.”

...

Right now, there is little that researchers can say definitively about how best to prevent and treat neuropsychological manifestations of Covid-19. Nor do they know for certain why the brain is affected.

 

“It’s sort of like you’re trying to put out the fire and then a little bit later, you go look at  the nervous system as the embers,” said Victoria Pelak, professor of neurology and ophthalmology at the University of Colorado School of Medicine. “Because you are so concerned with the raging fire, you haven’t really been able to pay attention to the nervous system as much as you normally would.”

 

She and others are piecing the story together. So far the virus appears to cause its damage to the brain and nervous system not as much through direct infection as through the indirect effects of inflammation. Pieces of the virus, not actual viruses multiplying, can trigger an inflammatory response in the brain, said Lena Al-Harthi, chair of the Department of Microbial Pathogens and Immunity at Rush Medical College.

 

“If you have an uncontrolled level of inflammation, that leads to toxicity and dysregulation,” she said. “What I am concerned about is long-term effects, obviously in the people who have been hospitalized, but I think it’s definitely time to understand long-term sequelae for those individuals who have never been hospitalized. They’re young, too. We’re not talking about [only] older individuals, but people that are 30.”

 

Fred Pelzman, who practices internal medicine in New York City, fell sick with Covid-19 in March but has yet to recover fully. He doesn’t have his wind back, or his normal sense of taste and smell. His patients who have had Covid-19 are suffering from varying degrees of depression, anxiety, or Covid fog. One can’t do simple math calculations in her head any more. Others don’t feel as mentally sharp, struggling to find the right words to say. His colleagues tell him their patients, too, dread being reinfected with the virus.

 
...

 

“Strokes are larger, potentially more damaging with this disorder. Once inflammation or blood vessel problems occur within the nervous system itself, those people will have a lot longer road to recovery or may die from those illnesses,” Colorado’s Pelak said.

 

Doctors are also watching for  a syndrome called demyelination, in which the protective coating of nerve cells is attacked by the immune system when there is inflammation in the brain. As in the autoimmune disease multiple sclerosis, this can cause weakness, numbness, and tingling. It can also disrupt how people think, in some cases spurring psychosis and hallucinations. “We’re just not sure if this virus causes it more commonly than other viruses,” Pelak said.

 

In Italy, three Covid-19 patients with no previous history of neurologic or autoimmune disorders developed myasthenia gravis, a disease that weakens the arm and leg muscles, causes double vision, and leads to difficulties speaking and chewing. While such symptoms could follow the viral infection of nerve cells, it’s also possible that an autoimmune mechanism — the body attacking healthy cells — is at work, the group reporting these cases said.

 

Recovery from Covid-19 often begins in rehab. Ross Zafonte, chief medical officer at Spaulding, said he is seeing some patients’ cognitive and brain-related issues last for much longer than expected. That includes depression, memory disorders, and PTSD, as well as muscle and peripheral nerve damage that makes mobility difficult. For some patients, their mental awareness has been slow to recover. 

 

“We’re trying to follow people long term and do a longitudinal study to see what are the comorbid factors,” he said. “What are the characteristics of people who don’t get back to normal? How can early intervention try to deal with that? Are there some biomarkers of risk? Can we try to define better targets for early intervention?”

 

Maryland’s Postolache thinks Covid-19 infection might act as a “priming event” for problems to resurface in the future. Psychological stress could reactivate behavioral and emotional problems that were initially triggered by the immune system responding to the virus. “What we call psychological versus biological may actually be quite biological,” he said. “We don’t really say this is permanent … but considering all complexities of human life, it’s unavoidable.

 

Ely of Vanderbilt suggests three things to do now.

 

We can open the hospitals back up to the families. That’s important,” he said. “We can be aware of these problems and tell the families about them so that the families will know that this is coming. [And] we can do counseling and psychological help on the back end.”

 

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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

Porcelain:  Very interesting (and previously unknown to me) information.  Thank you.

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Re: Children are Silent Spreaders of Covid Virus

@Porcelain, I'm so sorry to hear about your family, and I wish them a complete recovery. Heart


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