Community Chat

[Drythe]

@eadu4 

And I won't blindly accept theories - 

 where no one can show me exactly how each state, county, city, town, hospital, clinic, test site, doctor's office, morgue, codex system, HDP, fund transfers, bank accounts, confirmed theory, person, occurrence, participant, and outcome. 

There is just too much risk for inaccuracy.  

[eadu4]

@suzyQ3 Respectfully I am not saying there are no facts.  Never did I say that.  I am saying I do not have faith in the system compiling the facts.  Therefore I don't have faith that the reporting numbers are accurate. I can't accept the numbers are not without errors.  There is a virus, people have died.  I'm just not convinced that  our numbers are accurate.  So yes there are numbers, yes they counted various catagories but I don't have faith that the system did it correctly.  Yes there are facts. But I don't believe in the system that compiled them.  

[michellegirl]

I agree @caro . The stats have always been fishy. To gain a better understanding, I have been following data-geeks and statisticians on Twitter who track and disseminate the data. This has been much more useful to me than the political headlines, "x cases today, x total cases." 

As an example, my state of Wisconsin (DHS WI) reported 12 deaths on March 4.  https://twitter.com/DHSWI/status/1367565591125626882. One follower clarifies, "When did the 12 deaths occur, you ask? 1 in the last 7 days, 3 in the 7d prior to that, 1 the week prior to that, 7 more than 3 weeks ago. 4 of the 7 were last year." It's a mess. People who track the data daily have also stated, "3 days in a row, DHS has un-reported old cases. 290 total., 55 today. That makes cases reported over the last 3 days artificially low." And they sometimes log hundreds of "backlogged" cases which make the numbers artificially high.

Having said that, I stopped paying attention to the number of cases to do my personal risk-assessment. Instead, I focus on my state's Death Rate (1.1%) and Hospitalization Rate (4.7%) and Hospital Capacity (but you have to take into consideration that hospitals don't ever run with a ton of Immediate Bed Availability; especially now that they have resumed surgeries, etc). Perhaps those numbers are off a bit as well, but they don't fluctuate as frequently and really put the important factors into perspective for me. 

I hope that helps. There are many of us out here that find the Covid stats fishy. It's a shame that a person needs to track/download the data daily and do heavy data analysis to identify the discrepencies. Stay safe!

[pitdakota]

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@michellegirl wrote:

I agree @caro . The stats have always been fishy. To gain a better understanding, I have been following data-geeks and statisticians on Twitter who track and disseminate the data. This has been much more useful to me than the political headlines, "x cases today, x total cases." 

As an example, my state of Wisconsin (DHS WI) reported 12 deaths on March 4.  https://twitter.com/DHSWI/status/1367565591125626882. One follower clarifies, "When did the 12 deaths occur, you ask? 1 in the last 7 days, 3 in the 7d prior to that, 1 the week prior to that, 7 more than 3 weeks ago. 4 of the 7 were last year." It's a mess. People who track the data daily have also stated, "3 days in a row, DHS has un-reported old cases. 290 total., 55 today. That makes cases reported over the last 3 days artificially low." And they sometimes log hundreds of "backlogged" cases which make the numbers artificially high.

Having said that, I stopped paying attention to the number of cases to do my personal risk-assessment. Instead, I focus on my state's Death Rate (1.1%) and Hospitalization Rate (4.7%) and Hospital Capacity (but you have to take into consideration that hospitals don't ever run with a ton of Immediate Bed Availability; especially now that they have resumed surgeries, etc). Perhaps those numbers are off a bit as well, but they don't fluctuate as frequently and really put the important factors into perspective for me. 

I hope that helps. There are many of us out here that find the Covid stats fishy. It's a shame that a person needs to track/download the data daily and do heavy data analysis to identify the discrepencies. Stay safe!

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@michellegirl, that is because those deaths went to a committee of independent physicians to verify if covid-19 was a cause of death.  All states do this.  There are some deaths that occur in which they are just not sure if covid was a primary cause of death.  Those cases along with all the medical records for that patient are referred and they are reviewed to make a determination.  It takes them a while to review those cases, especially since these docs are working docs.

So they may review a death and determine covid was the cause of death on March 4.  So March 4 is the day the death is recorded for the reporting data, but the actual death took place on say, Feb. 23.

Daily reports just identify information that came through the system that day, not that the actual event or occurrence occured during that exact day.  That is somewhat akin to expected an obituary to appear in the newspaper the same day a person dies.   

I agree, I think the vast majority of people put too much emphasis on or try to distract from daily rates.  It really is the trend over a 7 day average that gives a better picture of viral activity.  Personally, I pay more attention to the 7 day rolling average of test positivity rate.  That gives a better picture of what viral activity in a certain area entails. But in the meantime, it doesn't mean that the data released is fishy.  It is just understanding how the system works.  And those individuals tracking that information want the most accurate data they can get. 

[Drythe]

@Lali1 

Fortunate for you.  I have lost 5 family members and one friend, sadly many are missing loved ones.

I have LOTS of questions!

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@Lali1 wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

@Lali1 

Why is it that when someone states a DIFFERENT opinion, they are ACCUSED of trying to tell others they can’t talk?

Why is someone with a DIFFERENT opinion accused of not asking questions, not thinking for themselves?

I have done much research and will continue to do so.  If my opinion doesn’t agree with yours, FINE.  

I have studied Many sources, and cranked the available DATA for Myself.  You state your opinion and so will I.  I believe we have suffered from a National Pandemic made worse by inexplicable lack of planning, and compounded by poor response.  500,000 Americans died from it.  My eyes are open.

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@Lali1 wrote:

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@liliblu wrote:

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@Lali1 wrote:

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@GoneButNotForgotten wrote:

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@liliblu wrote:

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@Jaspersmom wrote:

Just got word a colleague passed this morning.  She was in her fifties and had bad asthma.  Had been on a ventilator for several weeks.  I live in a highly populated area and yes, I know dozens and dozens of people who tested positive and sadly, several who died including my SIL back in April.  My concern always is how those who haven't had much exposure or experience with the virus tend to downplay it.  I'm happy for those who live in areas where stats stay low, but that's not an indication that the stats that are reported are inflated.  Just do the smart thing and keep everyone - yourself and others - SAFE.

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It seems that for some people it's not real unless it happens to them or someone they know.

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It's called "magical thinking"

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Go ahead and make us all out to be stupid for asking questions. Honestly I'd rather be someone who asks questions than someone who just does as their told with no investigation. And I did not read that we believe there is no COVID or no death from it. What I read was that people question the numbers and how much fear we should have. 

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The questions always seem to cast doubt on how serious the pandemic is.  Every country in the world has been effected by the pandemic.  But some think there is a conspiracy to up the number of cases.  

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Just questions. How you look them is your issue. We are still allowed to ask questions in this country. If you want to believe things without questioning so be it. Don't dare say I have no right to ask the questions and then lie about my motives! 

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Maybe your question should be asked of the people suggesting having a differing opinion is magical thinking.  My truth is my truth. I know no one who has been hospitalized due to COVID much less died due to it. Many others have the same experience yet the number of cases are so high and deaths. So we're stupid for asking questions? I don't see it. Not sure why it seems to bother some that people have questions. 

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[on the bay]

@Drythe -

That is so horrible and sad! You must feel like this is a nightmare! I am so very sorry!

I have lost several family members in the past 2 years, one very close one due to covd. I can't imagine your loss because I know I am still having a hard time dealing with ours. 

I have lots of thoughts of what if this person dies and I worry though I try very hard to keep living life without letting worry overwhelm me. 

This is so sadly many families reality.

When anyone questions the validity of the tragedy of all these deaths, I can't believe they have experienced any in their own family or friends.

There are so many people grieving together all over our nation. Though that doesn't make it any easier, just sadder all around.

I think acknowledging this sorrow is important for all Americans. Not to brush it away as if nothing happened at all. I want to honor all who died and their families in my heart.

[pitdakota]

@Drythe, I too have those that have died due to covid.  Unfortunately, I also know multiple nurses that have died. Even just locally, I know 3 young nurses that died. 

I don't know if I could even count the number of people I know that have contracted covid.  I have several cousins, our pastor & his wife, neighbors, etc. that have had covid.  Currently, I have an uncle in ICU with covid and it is touch and go at this time.  One of our neighbors had a long hospitalization, is home & although still really weak is Slowly progressing & getting his feet back underneath him. 

I also had a former nursing student that working as a nurse that contracted covid.  She is a long hauler and has really struggled.  I feel so badly for her as she is in her 30s and has really had a tough time.  

[CrazyDaisy]

Anyone who believes that the covid numbers are correct simply have to follow the money.  The Federal Govt is reimbursing hospital, doctors etc for costs related to covid treatments, no questions asked.  We all know that there is no fraud when free money is involved.

[pitdakota]

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@CrazyDaisy wrote:

Anyone who believes that the covid numbers are correct simply have to follow the money.  The Federal Govt is reimbursing hospital, doctors etc for costs related to covid treatments, no questions asked.  We all know that there is no fraud when free money is involved.

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@CrazyDaisy  And that money doesn't even begin to cover the expense of the hospital for treating those covid patients.   

The cost of the staff since those patients take a higher nurse ratio than other patients, the fact that there is a nursing shortage & hospitals are having to pay travel nurses $80.00/hr to work covid units or covid ICUs, the increased cost of equipment used on patients with high flow oxygen.

Heck, they even quadruple the IV tubing on many of the patients so they can leave the IV pump outside a closed door and not have to enter the room multiple times to hang meds every 30 minutes, thereby not exposing nursing staff having to enter the room when they have other options.  Even if those options do expotentially increase the cost to care for the patient. 

Yeah, they are really raking in the bucks!  LOL!

ETA:  Oh and let's not forget the expense of the hospitals purchasing

I-pads or other tablets so that nurses can let family members see their loved one via video link.  Yeah, those tablets are really cheap. 

[KKJ]

You got that right @CrazyDaisy !  I don't trust the numbers either.