Community Chat

[Maudelyn]

How do you round up ISIS?  What does ISIS look like? When you start to round them up, are you going to be asking them if they're ISIS?  Is so, will they answer in the affirmative?  If no, are you going to round up people who you think could be ISIS?  Like the Japanese internment in the US?  If you looked it, you were locked up.  Not sure how @gardenman would accomplish what he suggests.  I'd also love to have a source for his info. 

[gardenman]

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@Maudelyn wrote:

How do you round up ISIS?  What does ISIS look like? When you start to round them up, are you going to be asking them if they're ISIS?  Is so, will they answer in the affirmative?  If no, are you going to round up people who you think could be ISIS?  Like the Japanese internment in the US?  If you looked it, you were locked up.  Not sure how @gardenman would accomplish what he suggests.  I'd also love to have a source for his info. 

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There are dozens of sources for my information. ISIS has never hidden their goal which is to drag the west into a ground war where they'll emerge triumphant in Dabiq with the Mahdi leading them. 

Here's a link to an article from 2015 in the NY TImes that spotlights their prophecy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/08/world/middleeast/us-strategy-seeks-to-avoid-isis-prophecy.html?_r...

Here's a link to an article in Business Insider that also explores their prophecy.

http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-makes-sure-to-avoid-one-apocalyptic-prophesy-about-the-antichris...

Here's yet another aritlce from the Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2786039/The-1-300-year-old-apocalyptic-prophecy-predicted-wa...

If you Google "ISIS prophecy"  or "ISIS goal" you can find many, many more articles. None of this is a secret. ISIS openly recruits their followers by promising them that the end of the world is coming and they help bring it about and a return of the Mahdi. It will all culminate in Dabiq. They kill and use terror to try and provoke us into engaging them in that prophecy. They're convinced this will lead to the return of the Mahdi. They used the name "Dabiq" for their magazine. They don't hide what they want. The reason they engage in terrorist attacks is to provoke a war with us. That's their goal. They want to engage us in a war that will end in Dabiq where they'll emerge victorious.

They truly believe in that prophecy and as a rule you can't 'educate' people out of beliefs. You can't 'love'  people out of their beliefs. You have to shake their beliefs. You have to prove their beliefs are false. About the only way you can do that is by engaging them in the action they seek and proving their prophecy false. Beliefs are a powerful thing and not easily shaken once established. It typically takes something fairly drastic to make people question their beliefs. The ISIS followers who believe in the Dabiq prophecy will only lose that belief when it's proven false. Until that time, they'll continue to engage in activities designed to draw us into the war they seek.

We'll spend millions/billions trying to prevent attacks, only to fail because it's impossible to stop someone driving a vehicle from driving into a crowd of people and running them down. They will keep attacking and killing until they draw us into the war they seek. They have no reason to stop. They're not afraid of going to prison or being killed. They think they're part of a bigger plan and that a big reward awaits them. They're not interested in hearing our views, they know that they're right. They know their prophecy is true and that they are part of a bigger plan. 

Show me a better option than proving their prophecy wrong and maybe I'll change my view, but when you have 'true believers' who know they're right and are willing to die to prove it, you don't have a whole lot of options.

[Noel7]

It's also impossible to identify and track down each and every one in order to kill them.  We have plenty of examples to prove the fallacy of that fantasy.

[Maudelyn]

Thank you for the links @gardenman.  This sounds to me like extreme members of a cult. We have these doomsday cults here in the US.  How many times have "preachers" predicted the end times, only to have the day come and go. Some have even pursuaded their followers to suicide.

I believe the vast majority of home grown terrorists are pursuaded to violence over the internet.  Cults use disenfranchisement as a lure- what do you have to lose?  the government is against you, the infidels are raining bombs on your mothers and sisters, the West is colluding to take your religion away...and on and on it goes. 

When you have an atmosphere where you feel disenfranchised, perhaps hated in your own country (the Manchester bombers were born and raised in the UK), these cults create an avenue for people to act out on their worst impulses.

Rounding people up and obliterating them just creates more recruiting opportunities, foments more hatred, and is completely contrary to what we've learned throughout history.  The root of the problem is helplessness and hopelessness and that needs to be addressed.

[Justice4all]

@gardenman

And when the mahdi doesn't come, there's the rationalization that it takes time...

[Puzzle Piece]

Well, the leaders (if that's what they are) where a certain belief is practiced, don't invest in their people instead of building themselves the funky palaces where they preside, then of course that breeds contempt. 

Males in all countries/ethnicity's are adventurous.  There is despair and doom where these people originate.  Boredom as well. Young men need to work out their hormonal itches with baseball, basketball, football, soccer, hockey, swimming, golf, fishing, wrestling, etc.  It's not allowed over where they originated and not encouraged.  There's plenty oil money that could build them centers, man-made lakes, and all sort of sports venues.  Healthy competition can bring understanding of team work and goals rather than involving one in a cult to be destructive and harmful.  Same for the females. I cannot speak for education other than the basics of reading, writing, and arithmetic - that will have to be some educators (without a harmful/dangerous agenda) to put into place. 

This is just one posters view to the several offered up. 

[Oznell]

In the immediate aftermath of tragedies like this, it's hard to see anything "good" growing out of it.  This is the third such incident this year for Britain.

But at least there are some signs that U.K. leaders are starting to take terrorism yet more seriously than they already have.  They may begin to pour more thought and information, resources, and prudent actions into what is an ever-growing challenge.

So, in my view, that's encouraging.

[MyShadowLove]

@gardenman...Very interesting and informative post!

[gardenman]

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@MyShadowLove wrote:

@gardenman...Very interesting and informative post!

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I always look for the "why." Why are they doing what they're doing? In the case of ISIS, they're only too happy to tell you exactly why they're doing what they're doing. Once you know the "why" you can then work on stopping them in one way or another. One of the first rules of war is to know your enemy.

In the case of ISIS they want a massive war with the West that they're convinced will culminate in Dabiq with the return of the Mahdi, and the start of the end of the world. Every action they take is designed to draw us into that war. With hundreds of thousands of followers and more joining them everyday it's nearly impossible to prevent terror attacks like those we've been witnessing lately. 

How do you stop someone from stealing a truck or other vehicle and driving it into a crowd of people? How do you stop them from taking butcher knives into a crowd of people and slashing away? At what point do you say, enough is enough, and give them the war they want?

We've been nibbling away at them for some time now and have removed key leaders, but their momentum of recruitment and their belief in their prophecy hasn't diminished. They gained and lost territory, but their beliefs have held firm.

Some reports now have them with over 200,000 fighters and more than a million sympathizers who are willing to act on their behalf. We've let them become a formidable foe and knowing their only goal is to draw us into a war, they won't stop until they get that war. 

I'm afraid that the only real way to end this is to give them the war they seek. Herd the ISIS fighters to Dabiq and test their prophecy. If they're correct, their Mahdi will emerge and lead them to victory. If they're wrong then ISIS dies in the battle they sought. If we continue on the path we're on the number of dead will continue to rise until it becomes an unbearable burden. Those families that lost people in the most recent London attack are already bearing that burden. They weren't the first and likely won't be the last.