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@suzyQ3 wrote:

I hope that some can benefit from reading the book. Personally, I've dealt with this as along as I can remember. It is hard-wired in my brain. It formed who I am.

 

There is not anything that could dissolve the heart of the problem for me. But I can say that withyears of retrospection, I can live with it most of the time.

 

On good days, I find some amount of empathy for her; on very bad days, I feel an indescribable rage.


===============================================

 

That is so sad.  

I am so glad I checked the forums tonite because I'd love to read this book.

All my life, I thought my mother and I had a normal relationship.  It wasn't until covid and being stuck in the house 24/7 that I had some heart-breaking revelations.  Just today, I had a breakthru regarding how my relationship with my mother affected my relationships with other people in my life.  

I also started watching some religious services on FB and those ministers really gave me a double dose of reality.

 

"The less you respond to negative people, the more peaceful your life will become."
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@agb80 wrote:

I have the opinion that women who work and are constantly stressed about money do not have the same ease that another woman would in loving and nurturing their child. 

 

It may sound like excusing bad behavior but those who have had a hard life sometimes are not always happy or loving people and may even blame their kids for their financial situation.  

 

I say this because I saw a rather big difference in my own mother who completely chilled out as her life got better.  

 

@agb80Stress over money, or being a single parent have no place in this conversation. Abuse is abuse period. When you say things like that to a victim you minimize their pain.

 

 

 


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@FancyPhillyshopper wrote:

 

Well, I hope those that feel they need the help are able to use the book for assistance.

 

I think it is very difficult to label a woman a "bad" mother if her children grow up healthy, educated, and able to fully function in society.  

 

I think many young women without good role models, a strong partner or a supportive family, or the financial or cultural assets may not even have known what it meant to be a "good" mother.  Additionally, expectations are constantly changing and what was done fifty years ago or more is not necessarily the same.  After all, Victorians used to say children should be seen but not heard.

 

I also think that people need to look at issues through the lense of time, and by trying to walk the experience of motherhood in their own mother's footsteps.  

 

Opportunities have vastly changed for women over the many past decades, and certainly sharing knowledge has improved and child-rearing information is more readily available.  

 

I also think patience, forgiveness and kindness are paramount when dealing with family, because all the relationships are so emotionally charged.

 

By the way, my mother and I love each other dearly, and we are very happy to be in each other's lives no matter the past.

 

 


@FancyPhillyshopperNo child should have to take a walk down memory lane for the sake of an abusive parent. They do not have to look through the "lens of time". Yes, discipline was different in the past, but abuse is abuse period. Abuse has nothing to do with opportunities changing for women.

 

The only patience, kindness and forgiveness these victims owe is to their own inner child that was abused. That child never goes away.  The adult has to live with the trauma of abuse forever!

 

You are blessed to have had a mother that loved you. You can see that was not the case for the victims brave enough to speak out.

 

 

 

 

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@agb80 wrote:

I have the opinion that women who work and are constantly stressed about money do not have the same ease that another woman would in loving and nurturing their child. 

 

It may sound like excusing bad behavior but those who have had a hard life sometimes are not always happy or loving people and may even blame their kids for their financial situation.  

 

I say this because I saw a rather big difference in my own mother who completely chilled out as her life got better.  

 

 

 

 



@agb80 wrote:

I have the opinion that women who work and are constantly stressed about money do not have the same ease that another woman would in loving and nurturing their child. 

 

It may sound like excusing bad behavior but those who have had a hard life sometimes are not always happy or loving people and may even blame their kids for their financial situation.  

 

I say this because I saw a rather big difference in my own mother who completely chilled out as her life got better.  

 

 

 

 


My mother worked outside the home but we always knew that her children and marriage were her priority.  It was not until we were older and things were better that we learned that our parents ever had financial struggles.  They shielded us from that.  I have a great mom and dad and have never taken that for granted.  

 

Many people raise their children the way they were raised.  That's great if you came from a home filled with love.  But far too many people have been raised in unloving loves.  Some break the cycle and give their children all the love they never received.  Others repeat the cycle.

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@RobbiesAuntJenny wrote:

To label my mom as a "bad mother" would be a compliment.  I am not a doctor but I believe she had Narcissist Personality Disorder.  But this does not make the fact she abused all 9 of her children ok.  

 

Because of her abuse I have siblings but no brothers and sisters.  

 

I didn't know about NPD until about 3 years ago.  And then my nephew died.  I saw my oldest sister become our mom.    


@RobbiesAuntJenny 

 

Only if you feel comfortable answering, Was your oldest sister the mother of the nephew that died?

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@suzyQ3 wrote:

@Isobel Archer& @GrailSeeker

 

Although your individual histories are unique, I can feel the heat of your grief and totally empathize. I am so sorry for what you both endured. But you should both routinely be proud of who you are now. Heart


I can only speak for myself, but shame is the biggest emotion I have had to deal with all my life.  It has been hard to share because I have always felt vulnerable to being thought of "less than", dirty, or pitied.  

 

Dr. Ramani, who I only discovered over the last 6 or 8 months, is the only one who I know of who has addressed some of my issues.

 

One really has to be careful of counseling.  Many of them have no training in narcissistic abuse and it can leave you re-traumatized.

 

Dr. Ramani - the shame people feel when they come from narcissistic families:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTyIOO6czJU

 

How to think about your narcissistic parent:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JVHyTBAbw

 

Anger and grief toward your non-narcissistic parent:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYfL2QlXWcw

 

Narcissistic Family Roles (scapegoat, golden child, invisible child):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn3xhDni4w4

 

 

 

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Re: BAD MOTHERS

[ Edited ]

@manny2 wrote:

@agb80 wrote:

I have the opinion that women who work and are constantly stressed about money do not have the same ease that another woman would in loving and nurturing their child. 

 

It may sound like excusing bad behavior but those who have had a hard life sometimes are not always happy or loving people and may even blame their kids for their financial situation.  

 

I say this because I saw a rather big difference in my own mother who completely chilled out as her life got better.  

 

@agb80Stress over money, or being a single parent have no place in this conversation. Abuse is abuse period. When you say things like that to a victim you minimize their pain.

 

 

 



@agb80- ITA.  Abuse is abuse, regardless of the circumstances.

There's nothing worse than being a child and having your perception or enjoyment of reality marginalized by an adult from whom you expect moral and emotional support.  Being told you can't do this or you can't do that ...

I've started reading the book -- and I'm p*$$ed off already ... mainly because there are some things about my childhood I will NEVER forget.  

To this day, as OLD as I am, I carry those memories with me almost daily.

I have a friend who went thru this (commiserating about the past) after her husband died.

She was mad that she married him (to escape her mother), and 48 years later, mad when he died.

Then covid hit and we BOTH had too much time to think .. and commiserate.

We've known eachother since 1955.  

Our families were far from perfect.

 

 

"The less you respond to negative people, the more peaceful your life will become."
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@tiny 2  - She was.  She was also his abuser.  

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@GrailSeeker wrote:

@suzyQ3 wrote:

@Isobel Archer& @GrailSeeker

 

Although your individual histories are unique, I can feel the heat of your grief and totally empathize. I am so sorry for what you both endured. But you should both routinely be proud of who you are now. Heart


I can only speak for myself, but shame is the biggest emotion I have had to deal with all my life.  It has been hard to share because I have always felt vulnerable to being thought of "less than", dirty, or pitied.  

 

Dr. Ramani, who I only discovered over the last 6 or 8 months, is the only one who I know of who has addressed some of my issues.

 

One really has to be careful of counseling.  Many of them have no training in narcissistic abuse and it can leave you re-traumatized.

 

Dr. Ramani - the shame people feel when they come from narcissistic families:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTyIOO6czJU

 

How to think about your narcissistic parent:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JVHyTBAbw

 

Anger and grief toward your non-narcissistic parent:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYfL2QlXWcw

 

Narcissistic Family Roles (scapegoat, golden child, invisible child):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn3xhDni4w4

 

 

 


@GrailSeeker   thank you for posting the bolded link.  i could never articulate exactly what our roles were in my family. i knew my sister was the golden child.  i was the scapegoat as a small child because Mother expected me to care for my toddler sister at the age of 5 or 6. if i did something wrong, as a small child how could i know of the danger?,  i was punished.  as i got older i would try anything and everything to make my sister laugh, because if she cried, it was my fault. my sister was platinum blode and very cute.  i drew pictures of myself with no arms or only one leg (neurotic indicator)

 

as we grew older,   my father became the scapegoat, and i became the invisible child. my mother didnt notice me or interact with me. i recall dressing up in a fancy outfit and ringing the doorbell to "visit" my mother.  on another occasion i hung around by the side of a road with me head in a gully hoping someone driving by would stop and talk to me. 

 

as a teen i started acting out.  i would be punished or grounded and then do something else they found unacceptable.   it was a cry for help that never came. i was essentially kicked out of the house at 19.  i came back, hurt from an abusive relationship with a boyfriend. it was after my first year at college and a summer out west with this bf and there was no room for me.  the house had only 2 bedrooms and the golden child claimed the bedroom we had shared, for herself. my mother made my life a nightmare then, just to get me out of her house.

 

i started to post something very personal the other night and thought better of it. my mother has definate narcissistic traits. it's difficult now that she is in her 90s and feels entitled to my help because she is my parent.  any small characteristic she has has now come to the fore. its very difficult. her home is in the same small town she has lived in since the 50s.  what kind of daughter can i be that i am not able and willing to 100% help her?  to the outside she seems so charming and sweet. nobody knows how she really is.

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@manny2 wrote:

@agb80 wrote:

I have the opinion that women who work and are constantly stressed about money do not have the same ease that another woman would in loving and nurturing their child. 

 

It may sound like excusing bad behavior but those who have had a hard life sometimes are not always happy or loving people and may even blame their kids for their financial situation.  

 

I say this because I saw a rather big difference in my own mother who completely chilled out as her life got better.  

 

@agb80Stress over money, or being a single parent have no place in this conversation. Abuse is abuse period. When you say things like that to a victim you minimize their pain.

 

 

 



@manny2 In no way have I minimized my own pain; I merely understand its origins.  My parents have been gone for quite awhile now and so are a lot of other feelings too like disappointment, resentment and all the what ifs - if only they had done this instead of that - if only they had said that instead of what they did say.    

 

I realize it will be a different path for you and others.