@magicmoodz wrote:
@pitdakota
Ah, always the voice of reason and information. Thank you for sharing.
In a recent (May) Forbes article I believe it stated two doses of the Moderna vaccine (considered to be the cadillac) has been identified as providing protection for 6 months which could then mean the other vaccines might not provide protection for that length of time. Understood we cannot foretell the future, but when did trials start? I suspect well before they were made available to the public and that might be how this information is gathered?
In an article published by the CDC May 7th it stated:
- This science brief has been updated to reflect current knowledge about SARS-CoV-2 transmission and reformatted to be more concise.
- Modes of SARS-CoV-2 transmission are now categorized as inhalation of virus, deposition of virus on exposed mucous membranes, and touching mucous membranes with soiled hands contaminated with virus.
- Although how we understand transmission occurs has shifted, the ways to prevent infection with this virus have not. All prevention measures that CDC recommends remain effective for these forms of transmission.
Am I incorrect in thinking I could unknowingly be the uninfected carrier
transmitting the virus from one infected person to another through mucous membranes (say from an asymtomatic grandchild to a husband)?
While I try to stay abreast of new information with regard to Covid, I will always defer to an expert like you. My concern is some people seem to think once vaccinated all is good. I read an interview from the beginning of February? where Dr. Osterholm stated "our darkest days are yet to come". Perhaps he was speaking more globally with the tragedy that is occurring in India, but still...
Again pitdakota thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I truly appreciate that we can learn from you.
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@magicmoodz Both Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines. They both use the same technology of the messenger RNA vehicle to achieve immune response. I believe both Pfizer and Moderna started their phase 3 clinical trials basically around the same time which would have been late July 2020 and ran them through Oct. 2020.
During the phase 3 clinical trials the emphasis would have been on efficacy and safety in the vaccinated subjects as compared to those in the study that received the placebo. The focus would not include testing for antibodies but monitoring for infection, severity of infection, rate of hospitalization, death due to covid, side effects related to the vaccine, etc.
At the conclusion of the phase 3 trials they sometimes ask participants that were vaccinated to participate in ongoing evaluation to determine immune response when they are dealing with a vaccine given in this type of a situation with infections continuing to occur in the general population. Meaning that they would not start to look at antibody levels in vaccinated individuals that participated in the phase 3 trials until after Oct. 2020.
I don't have specific information about how either company has detailed their plans to conduct antibody titers in their study participants, but I can reasonably assume they probably didn't have enough people vaccinated until at least the end of August to participate in blood draws for antibody titers. They need a fairly large sample size for data. Then for example they would draw titers on those vaccinated in August probably at 6 months ( Feb), 12 months (August). They could opt to do an evaluation between those times, it just depends on theirr plan and the money available for the study.
I do know there is a study going here that enrolled nurses and doctors vaccinated in Jan. 2021 to evaluate antibody levels and they will have their first lab samples drawn late August 2021. They don't start counting the month toward 6 months until Feb. because they need to have a large cohort of subjects vaccinated all the way through the month of Jan. Then they start counting the months. So those vaccinated in Jan & Feb. will have lab samples drawn at the end of August to evaluate antibody levels at 6 months for that group here.
So what all that means is that when they report the vaccine is effective for 6 months at this time, that is the longest period of time they have been able to assess antibody levels. It doesn't mean that the vaccine is only effective for 6 months. I suspect they will be putting some money behind more studies to look at antibody levels as those participants approach the 12 month mark since the possibility of needing another vaccine is possible. They will just have to determine when the immune response in vaccinated individuals most typically starts to fade in order to determine more about further vaccination.
A carrier is infected, so they do have the disease. They are just not symptomatic and therefore don't have any signs of having the disease. But the carrier still has the virus. Asymptomatic transmission with covid-19 has been an issue from the beginning of our experience with this pandemic. It is probably one of the biggest data points that changed guidance for requiring the public to wear masks.
If one is sick, they are generally at home not feeling well. They aren't out and about eating, going bowling, going to church, going to movies, etc. So that became a huge issue last spring with the discovery of just how much asymptomatic transmission was occurring from infected people being out and about and spreading it to others. Probably the greatest risk of transmission with SARS-CoV-2 is respiratory droplet or the aersolization of the virus in the air. That is why we saw so many cases from contact tracing that was happening in restaurants, bars, churches, etc. Asymptomatic people in those settings are talking, laughing, or in the case of church.....singing which emits a tremendous viral load into the air that can then infect others, especially in smaller venues.
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