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Posts: 15,356
Registered: ‎06-27-2010

Re: Another Florida Shooting

[ Edited ]

@Oostende wrote:

I do not know what stops a bad guy with a gun, other than a good guy with a gun.  I'm pretty sure another law won't do it.  In fact, it is illegal to shoot people in all 50 states, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about the regard shooters hold for the law.

 

Guns are just tools.  We have seen terrorists use fertilizer (Timothy McVeigh), airplanes (9/11), and vehicles to mow down unsuspecting pedestrians.  (Too numerous to cite, but easy to find.)

 

Besides killing humans, guns are also used to protect humans.  I live near Grand Teton National Park.  A grizzly just attacked a 10-year-old boy a few days ago.  He was hiking on a trail.  She was thought to be protecting her cub.  The grizz was misinformed.  The boy was just out for a hike with his family.

 

We had a cougar living in my neighborhood all last winter.  The things are numerous this year.  Lots of folks carry guns to protect themselves, their companion animals, and their children.  It's not a bad idea.

 

I grew up on an Indian reservation.  Most of my cousins are still there.  They depend on the meat they get from hunting.  The tribe lets members hunt year-round.

 

Don't get me started on the fallacy that the Founding Fathers were only interested in a standing army.  Their own words and letters make it clear that they intended a well-armed populace to be a deterrent to an authoritarian governent that disregarded the rights and freedoms of the people it is supposed to represent.

 

And for the record, I am in favor of thoughts and prayers for the wounded and slain and their families.  This world could use all the help it can get.  

 

 


 

            Many of us have already addressed the empty "thoughts and prayers"  (I'm a Christian, and I don't say that lightly, by the way), and already addressed the specious memes about vehicles, airplanes which aren't meaningful comparisons with the carnage created by firearms.   

 

            The right to gun ownership in the Second Amendment is tied to being in a well-ordered militia.  (It also, in part, was related to slavery.)   Militias that are organized have things like gun safety classes and other protections. The members, ideally, know each other fairly well, and one would hope they would report if one of
their members seemed to be destabilizing.


           It would be helpful if gun owners enroll in the local militia and show up to meetings at least once monthly.  These meetings should be required to go over the basics of safety – locking rules,
wearing orange in the woods, where to point and not point a weapon, keeping it unloaded, and so on.
If you can’t take the time and money to do that, you can’t afford to own a firearm.

 

            Again, the solution is not all or nothing.   

No matter how many times we try to say it is...  it is not.   It's not one thing or another, not a simple problem, and not everyone who is seeking an answer wants to take weapons away from everyrone.   But as long as we pretend it's simple, we might as well throw in the towel and accept that we've created and are perfectly happy with this nightmare we're now living in.



           

⭐️“When all of this is over, one thing that will really matter is how well we treated each other.” (source undetermined)⭐️
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Re: Another Florida Shooting

If he has a license to carry, I am not sure the manager can ban everyone from bringing their gun into his store. I would hate to think I was shopping with a bunch of people packin'
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Posts: 3,866
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Re: Another Florida Shooting

I have more.

 

How many homicides are committed by cars, trucks, baseball bats, knives, molotov cocktails, flying monkeys, as compared to guns?

 

And yes, I know trucks and bombs have been used in terrorism plots, but guns are easier to hide, faster to use and more lethal.

~The only difference between this place and the Titanic is that the Titanic had a band.~
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Re: Another Florida Shooting

With so much data at our fingertips now, anyone can find statistics or research to support whatever opinion they wish to further. The bottom line is: too many innocent people are being gunned down each day in our country and it needs to stop.The public isn't safe anymore. Anywhere.
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Posts: 625
Registered: ‎03-14-2010

Re: Another Florida Shooting


@dooBdoo wrote:

@Oostende wrote:

I do not know what stops a bad guy with a gun, other than a good guy with a gun.  I'm pretty sure another law won't do it.  In fact, it is illegal to shoot people in all 50 states, which pretty much tells you all you need to know about the regard shooters hold for the law.

 

Guns are just tools.  We have seen terrorists use fertilizer (Timothy McVeigh), airplanes (9/11), and vehicles to mow down unsuspecting pedestrians.  (Too numerous to cite, but easy to find.)

 

Besides killing humans, guns are also used to protect humans.  I live near Grand Teton National Park.  A grizzly just attacked a 10-year-old boy a few days ago.  He was hiking on a trail.  She was thought to be protecting her cub.  The grizz was misinformed.  The boy was just out for a hike with his family.

 

We had a cougar living in my neighborhood all last winter.  The things are numerous this year.  Lots of folks carry guns to protect themselves, their companion animals, and their children.  It's not a bad idea.

 

I grew up on an Indian reservation.  Most of my cousins are still there.  They depend on the meat they get from hunting.  The tribe lets members hunt year-round.

 

Don't get me started on the fallacy that the Founding Fathers were only interested in a standing army.  Their own words and letters make it clear that they intended a well-armed populace to be a deterrent to an authoritarian governent that disregarded the rights and freedoms of the people it is supposed to represent.

 

And for the record, I am in favor of thoughts and prayers for the wounded and slain and their families.  This world could use all the help it can get.  

 

 


 

            Many of us have already addressed the empty "thoughts and prayers"  (I'm a Christian, and I don't say that lightly, by the way), and already addressed the specious memes about vehicles, airplanes which aren't meaningful comparisons with the carnage created by firearms.   

 

            The right to gun ownership in the Second Amendment is tied to being in a well-ordered militia.   Militias that are organized have things like gun safety classes and other protections. The members, ideally, know each other fairly well, and one would hope they would report if one of
their members seemed to be destabilizing.


           It would be helpful if gun owners enroll in the local militia and show up to meetings at least once monthly.  These meetings should be required to go over the basics of safety – locking rules,
wearing orange in the woods, where to point and not point a weapon, keeping it unloaded, and so on.
If you can’t take the time and money to do that, you can’t afford to own a firearm.

           


You are wrong about the Second Ammendment.  Completely and utterly wrong. 

I am not sure what constitutes a "local militia" as you use the term.

As far as your faith, it is immaterial to me.  I don't care if you believe in Karma.  Prayers and well wishes are fine by me.

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Re: Another Florida Shooting


@lovesrecess wrote:
With so much data at our fingertips now, anyone can find statistics or research to support whatever opinion they wish to further. The bottom line is: too many innocent people are being gunned down each day in our country and it needs to stop.The public isn't safe anymore. Anywhere.

 

            Amen, @lovesrecess.❤️   And as long as we keep doing the same things we've been doing, we'll keep getting the same results we've been getting.

 

⭐️“When all of this is over, one thing that will really matter is how well we treated each other.” (source undetermined)⭐️
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Registered: ‎03-10-2010

Re: Another Florida Shooting

I think everyone is missing the point, it's not guns, it's the mental state of individuals, I read he lost a game.

 

 

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Re: Another Florida Shooting


@Just Bling wrote:

I think everyone is missing the point, it's not guns, it's the mental state of individuals, I read he lost a game.

 

 


And he had a gun available.

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Re: Another Florida Shooting

[ Edited ]

@Oostende wrote:

@dooBdoo wrote: 

            Many of us have already addressed the empty "thoughts and prayers"  (I'm a Christian, and I don't say that lightly, by the way), and already addressed the specious memes about vehicles, airplanes which aren't meaningful comparisons with the carnage created by firearms.   

 

            The right to gun ownership in the Second Amendment is tied to being in a well-ordered militia. (It also, in part, was related to slavery.)  Militias that are organized have things like gun safety classes and other protections. The members, ideally, know each other fairly well, and one would hope they would report if one of
their members seemed to be destabilizing.


           It would be helpful if gun owners enroll in the local militia and show up to meetings at least once monthly.  These meetings should be required to go over the basics of safety – locking rules,
wearing orange in the woods, where to point and not point a weapon, keeping it unloaded, and so on.
If you can’t take the time and money to do that, you can’t afford to own a firearm.

           


You are wrong about the Second Ammendment.  Completely and utterly wrong. 

I am not sure what constitutes a "local militia" as you use the term.

As far as your faith, it is immaterial to me.  I don't care if you believe in Karma.  Prayers and well wishes are fine by me.


 

                I know I'm not wrong about the Second Amendment.   It's just history.  (In some ways scholars argue that it was in part a concern that wanted to preserve a form of government tyranny rather than protect us from it, but that's another topic.)   I know for sure as long as we permit the same memes to gaslight us, nothing will ever change.    

            I do believe in the power of prayer, yet as we've seen in this case the problem continues to escalate and the same arguments continue.    We must listen to each other, hear each other...  talk with one another instead of talking at one another.

 

⭐️“When all of this is over, one thing that will really matter is how well we treated each other.” (source undetermined)⭐️
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Re: Another Florida Shooting

I am happy to speak with you, @dooBdoo.  You are unequivocally wrong about the intent of the Second Ammendment.  It is quite clear.  In fact, if you know anything of history, and anything of the founders, then there is no room for discussion.  

Perhaps we can agree that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of law in the United States.  It is they who interpret the Constitution and we shall leave them to it.

 

I have yet to hear you address any of the other points in my initial post.  People hunt for food in the United States.  Ever go to an Indian rez?  

 

How about protection from wildlife?  Not everyone lives on Fifth Avenue.

 

By all means, talk.  I'm listening.