Community Chat

[Noel7]

From National Statistics On Sexual Violence

"Only about 2% of all sexual assault accusations reported to police turn out to be false. This is the same rate of false reporting as other types of violent crime."

More facts online.

[Moonchilde]

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@HerRoyaLioness wrote:

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@Moonchilde wrote:

I’m not sure if you mean employee to employee as far as Massage Envy, or employee with customer (which is what it sounds like from the OP).

What I see frequently on Yelp, where reviews are left for any and all types of legit massage places, are women (mostly under 30) who like to think they’re so desirable that no one could possibly not want them, and complain about “inappropriate touching” that sounds extremely doubtful to me - a “they WISH” type of thing. They write other reviews for other services (restaurants, etc) and write constantly about being ogled, hit on, waitress jealous...yeah sure honey - in your dreams.

Does it ever happen? Probably, sure. But does it happen as much as some of these people claim? I seriously doubt it. Why would they not have reported it to the owner, or police, and insisted upon pressing charges? In such instances they’d have nothing to lose by reporting it.

My opinion is sure to be unpopular in the current climate, but I have to say it - not every accusation is true. And what I’m afraid of is a general witch hunt (already starting, IMO) where every accusation is deemed 100% true, and every denial is categorically dismissed. At this point in time, all anyone has to do is accuse and it’s a done deal, the accused is guilty - the accusation is the trial, judge and jury. 

NO, sorry, my opinion does NOT mean I think all accusers are lying, either. And it does not mean I think everyone is making it all up. But I think common sense and logic need to be employed, across the board.

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Sorry I can't keep quiet here.   Statistics show only 2 - 7% turn out to be false.  And almost 70% of abuse doesn't even get reported.  You really don't know why they would not report it??? They have a LOT to lose by reporting it.  These sorts of statements only perpetuate doubts and wrong thoughts about the abused but gives abusers more power.

You need to seriously inform and educate yourself about abuse.

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You “need to” respect other peoples’ opinions. 

These sorts of statements only perpetuate the “witch hunt” mentality.

Have a swell evening now, hear?

[ROMARY]

Some victims just become 'stuck'.  They cannot or don't report certain assaults because, I'm thinking, they feel that nobody would believe them.  Same with some of the Olympic gymnasts.  They were each probably bantering back and forth in their own individual minds:  'Should I or shouldn't I say something'?'.   The entire world was watching, and I can visualize the dilemma that they were in.   ......... Well, now that we've been hearing about the alert/suggestion that people should stand up and say something.   'Say Something!' should be the new motto/phrase. 

[SahmIam]

My concern is that it only takes a few "false" reports to cause the public to say "yep, knew they were liars" and the tidal wave of doubt begins to crash upon those telling the truth. I've seen this happen for decades.

One issue, rarely discussed, is that what one person reports as sexual harassment or abuse is NOT considered the same by someone else. The line can be a fine one when culture/religion come into play. You may roll your eyes and say "oh, come on" and yet, I know that touching someone on the arm has been reported as sexual harassment against men AND women. Giving someone a hug.....patting their hand.....placing a gift/token of some kind at their desk.... all things I've done and never thought of but now...you have to.

In the Massage Envy report, the groping of breasts, rubbing an erection against the leg, buttocks, and other body touching were reported repeatedly and I don't know ANYONE who wouldn't see that as sexual and yet...this company or the management of each franchise mentioned didn't. Why? How, in ANY way is that considered acceptable behavior? Yet touching someone on the arm is ALSO reported under the same umbrella. Should it be? I don't know. 

[HerRoyaLioness]

@Moonchilde - I don't speculate or give opinions when it comes to sexual abuse, I try to keep informed and look at the facts.

Unfortunately I hear you loud and clear.

[handygal2]

Slightly off-topic, but who came up with that name?? I don't envy someone who's getting a massage, lol.

[HerRoyaLioness]

@SahmIam -  that is a good point about defining sexual harassment or assault.  The state I live in has the definition very specifically spelled out.  There are different degrees of sexual assault and they are explained in detail.  I would imagine most states have this spelled out also, so that it is never a matter of anyone's opinion.  

[Noel7]

The California definition of sexual harassment:

What is sexual harassment?

State regulations define sexual harassment as unwanted sexual advances, or visual, verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature. This definition includes many forms of offensive behavior and includes gender-based harassment of a person of the same sex as the harasser. The following is a partial list of prohibited behavior:

• Visual conduct: leering, making sexual gestures, displaying of sexually suggestive objects or pictures, cartoons or posters.
• Verbal conduct: making or using derogatory comments, epithets, slurs and jokes. Verbal abuse of a sexual nature, graphic verbal commentaries about an individual’s body, sexually degrading words used to describe an individual.
• Physical conduct: touching, assault, impeding or blocking movements.
• Offering employment benefits in exchange for sexual favors.
• Making or threatening retaliatory action after receiving a negative response to sexual advances.

https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/resources/frequently-asked-questions/employment-faqs/sexual-harassment-faqs/

[SahmIam]

@HerRoyaLioness  My state does as well. The issue is that a person can file a claim of sexual harassment if THEY believe that is what took place. Legally, it can be a nightmare for the person who had no idea that giving someone a hug when they told them some bad news was wrong but there it is. Yes, the state does define it but until that happens, the person accused has to go through the proceedings, the whispers plus HR may not be too thrilled with them.

That's one example of an extreme and yet, I watched it happen where I worked. On the other end, a company does nothing when multiple women report a supervisor for touching them on the breasts whenever he comes near them. Another extreme and something I witnessed. 

My point is once a person says they've been sexually harassed, the person accused faces a nightmare....but should they? Should you be allowed to file that complaint unless it meets a specific criteria? That isn't the case in my state or others. 

I ran into an old buddy of mine recently; we had faced off in the courtroom a few times yet never lost site of doing what we could for the survivors of violence. The discussion of all the harassment charges being filed caused her to say she sincerely hoped every single woman was telling the truth as it ruins the lives of 2 people; those that truly are harassed and those that didn't do the harassment but were accused of it. Once the idea gets out that person is doing something so disgusting, the fact that their name may be cleared rarely makes the rounds as quickly. Yes, the number is rare that's false but tell that to those who lives were ruined because of that false claim. No woman or man deserves any of this cr@p. 

[ROMARY]

Again, wearing a camera pendant, or (re: massage salons/spas) setting up a video device at each massage session might become the norm.  Let it be known that you have set up your own video camera.  Place them on notice. The ethical ones won't have a thing to worry about.  At the very least, all concerned will be on the same page.