Community Chat

[sidsmom]

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@Sooner wrote:

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@sidsmom wrote:

Lord.

This has nothing to do with ‘choices’ or who eats what.

This is about animal cruelty. 

So disheartening people don’t see this. 

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@sidsmom How many cattle ranches have you visited?  How many dairy farms?  How many states have you gone to and stopped and looked in on a farm?  How many?

Are you going by what you read see and hear in the media?  I'd like to know what YOU personally have seen with your own two eyes and how many?

You want to talk about facts, let's talk about them.  How many farm magazines have you read for years to find out about the real practices in raising animals in this day and age?  Have you visited the websites of A&M Universities in farming states?  If you REALLY want to know, go look for information about how farming and ranching is REALLY done and the people that farm and ranch and see and learn what you are talking about.

It could be eye opening. 

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@Sooner 

Since you tagged me directly...this is a bear trap moment for ‘ya. 

Buckle up, Buttercup. 

Here we go.

Er Uh.....I GREW UP on a farm/ranch in Nebraska.   

My father was a wheat/corn/crop farmer but we also had around

1000+ head of cattle. 

With owning large herds of Angus, dad would do his own branding/castrating.

As a little girl to my teens, I showed swine/cattle in 4-H and knew they were being slaughtered on the last day of fair. 

My father used to slaughter our own pigs on our ranch. 

My mother used to dress our own chickens...used to help her kill chickens.

Every time we went to the ‘big’ town to get groceries,

we had to pass by a Packing Plant. And with that, we would pass

countless semis filled w/ cattle on their last day of life.

To this very day, when I drive home to see my mother, I drive through

east Colorado...home of one of the largest feedlots (close to 140,000

head) in the US. Miles of cattle in an open lot, no shelter from the

wind/heat/sun/blizzards. I pass by countless numbers of semis hauling cattle.

Every business factors in collateral damage. 

Unfortunately the ‘collateral’ in this scenario has a heart,

big beautiful eyes and a sweet soul.

And that’s just the death part.  

And on a smaller farm level, I saw a lot of death in the name

of business.  Now multiply that by the tens of thousands...

the production of large scale death is soul-crushing.  

Here’s a picture of the feedlot....it’s the size of the closest town.

It’s miles long/wide. Large scale death.

Farm magazines? Please...I grew up reading Dad’s ag magazines/papers.

Somehow I got signed up on a dairy farming equipment email list....still get it to this day. Visited websites?   Don’t know what that would prove...I see the actual ranches.  ‘How it’s REALLY done’...Uh, sis...again, I see/lived the actual ranches.  I know what I’m talking about.  

Ranching/dairy is on the downside. Smart businessmen/businesswomen have realized that fact...and are making changes to their farming/ranching business plan to survive.  But the business of animal cruelty/death has very deep political pockets.  Just a matter of time before Life will catch up....we can’t continue to waste water & other natural resources to feed 1 cow for only a small amount of humans. It’s wasteful...especially when we have so many other resources which would feed so many more people.  Mother Nature is making notes. She has receipts. 

But as for ‘being eye opening’ and declaring how it’s REALLY done.

Sorry...you’re barking up the wrong tree.

I.

Know.

Cattle. 

And the cruelty/death is real. 

Very real.

[Lucky Charm]

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@RoughDraft wrote:

I'm still concerned with man's inhumanity to his own kind.  No one seems upset about that on this thread and yet they're suprised and disgusted at what man does to animals.

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'Man's inhumanity to his own kind'.

That is probably the most upsetting thing to me.

All I can do is hope and pray that changes.

[songbird]

Even milk cows that are raised humanly have harsh lives.  The worst thing anyone does to them is sometimes well meaning.  Separating the calves from the mothers.  they are taken from the mothers very young to be sold.  The mother cows grieve.  We get upset when Orcas mothers and calves get separated.  Milk Cows feel the same way.  They are usually separated from the mothers in the first 24 hours of birth. 

[Cakers3]

This isn't about organic vs. non-organic.  Abuse of animals can occur in both scenarios, as we have seen.

I seriously doubt except for ONE post here that anybody is not concerned about animal welfare.

To counter what is being argued:  this IS about touting the vegan lifestyle AND about animal abuse.  The two are joined.

It is very easy to (once again) lecture the unwashed mass about the vegan lifestyle.

However, I query this:

Those chewing greens-do you own leather purses?  Shoes? 

Are all your clothes "vegan"?

Do you use only "vegan" make-up, shampoo, lotions, perfume, cleaning products?

Do you realize that animal by-products make up for many CONTAINERS of said "vegan" products?  You may be using a "vegan" product but that plastic container was derived from animal by-products, in many instances.

I am not talking about "animal cruelty-free" products; I'm talking about how those products are packaged.

Do you use plastic bags?  Do you eat your "vegan" salads out of plastic cartons/containers?

Do you toss convenience items out without a second thought as to where they end up?

This chastising those who still consume meat and dairy need to clean out their own homes first.  Nothing in this world is truly "vegan". 

Talk to me about how you are doing all you can for our environment besides not eating meat/dairy.  Talk to me about how you understand that so many things you use are made in part from animal by-products; because an animal still had to die for those items.

Begin vegan isn't about just food; it crosses over to products used every single day.

The lack of information every single time astounds and troubles me deeply.

[KKJ]

Yes, I am a meat eater, but am against  cruelty to animals. That being said, I do believe God put animals like cows on earth for food. I mean, what do the vegans think should happen to all these millions of cows?  You think we should be like India and let them lie around in the streets and roam around in our yards and cities---HELLO!  There's not enough land to do that----stop putting their importance on same level as people. No, we shouldn't abuse them, but yes, we can eat them.

[KKJ]

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@sidsmom wrote:

---

@Sooner wrote:

---

@sidsmom wrote:

Lord.

This has nothing to do with ‘choices’ or who eats what.

This is about animal cruelty. 

So disheartening people don’t see this. 

---

@sidsmom How many cattle ranches have you visited?  How many dairy farms?  How many states have you gone to and stopped and looked in on a farm?  How many?

Are you going by what you read see and hear in the media?  I'd like to know what YOU personally have seen with your own two eyes and how many?

You want to talk about facts, let's talk about them.  How many farm magazines have you read for years to find out about the real practices in raising animals in this day and age?  Have you visited the websites of A&M Universities in farming states?  If you REALLY want to know, go look for information about how farming and ranching is REALLY done and the people that farm and ranch and see and learn what you are talking about.

It could be eye opening. 

---

@Sooner 

Since you tagged me directly...this is a bear trap moment for ‘ya. 

Buckle up, Buttercup. 

Here we go.

Er Uh.....I GREW UP on a farm/ranch in Nebraska.   

My father was a wheat/corn/crop farmer but we also had around

1000+ head of cattle. 

With owning large herds of Angus, dad would do his own branding/castrating.

As a little girl to my teens, I showed swine/cattle in 4-H and knew they were being slaughtered on the last day of fair. 

My father used to slaughter our own pigs on our ranch. 

My mother used to dress our own chickens...used to help her kill chickens.

Every time we went to the ‘big’ town to get groceries,

we had to pass by a Packing Plant. And with that, we would pass

countless semis filled w/ cattle on their last day of life.

To this very day, when I drive home to see my mother, I drive through

east Colorado...home of one of the largest feedlots (close to 140,000

head) in the US. Miles of cattle in an open lot, no shelter from the

wind/heat/sun/blizzards. I pass by countless numbers of semis hauling cattle.

Every business factors in collateral damage. 

Unfortunately the ‘collateral’ in this scenario has a heart,

big beautiful eyes and a sweet soul.

And that’s just the death part.  

And on a smaller farm level, I saw a lot of death in the name

of business.  Now multiply that by the tens of thousands...

the production of large scale death is soul-crushing.  

Here’s a picture of the feedlot....it’s the size of the closest town.

It’s miles long/wide. Large scale death.

Farm magazines? Please...I grew up reading Dad’s ag magazines/papers.

Somehow I got signed up on a dairy farming equipment email list....still get it to this day. Visited websites?   Don’t know what that would prove...I see the actual ranches.  ‘How it’s REALLY done’...Uh, sis...again, I see/lived the actual ranches.  I know what I’m talking about.  

Ranching/dairy is on the downside. Smart businessmen/businesswomen have realized that fact...and are making changes to their farming/ranching business plan to survive.  But the business of animal cruelty/death has very deep political pockets.  Just a matter of time before Life will catch up....we can’t continue to waste water & other natural resources to feed 1 cow for only a small amount of humans. It’s wasteful...especially when we have so many other resources which would feed so many more people.  Mother Nature is making notes. She has receipts. 

But as for ‘being eye opening’ and declaring how it’s REALLY done.

Sorry, sis....you’re barking up the wrong tree.

I.

Know.

Cattle. 

And the cruelty/death is real. 

Very real

I take issue with your wasting resources to feed cattle comment. Not all land is suitable for growing plants or other crops. Any farmer will tell you this. 

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[MoonieBaby]

NEVER am I shocked at the depth to which the "human beings" on this planet will sink when it comes to harming animals -

it's REASON #1  I prefer any animal any day for company ...over that of ANY HUMAN.

[KKJ]

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@songbird wrote:

Even milk cows that are raised humanly have harsh lives.  The worst thing anyone does to them is sometimes well meaning.  Separating the calves from the mothers.  they are taken from the mothers very young to be sold.  The mother cows grieve.  We get upset when Orcas mothers and calves get separated.  Milk Cows feel the same way.  They are usually separated from the mothers in the first 24 hours of birth. 

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Again, you people are so misinformed. You want to talk cruelty?  Try NOT milking that cow. Milking the cows is not cruelty.  And again, what do you propose we do with all of them--let them graze in your yards & leave their waste there and in the streets?  Will send them over to you now & you can take care of them!  

[CrazyDaisy]

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I take issue with your wasting resources to feed cattle comment. Not all land is suitable for growing plants or other crops. Any farmer will tell you this. 

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There is also about 155 million acres of Federal land that is used for grazing with permits.  This helps feed the population.  Would not want that land farmed.