Community Chat

[SeaMaiden]

China has gone here.... are we  next?

The Chinese state is setting up a vast ranking system that will monitor the behavior of its enormous population, and rank them all based on their "social credit."

The "social credit system," first announced in 2014, aims to reinforce the idea that "keeping trust is glorious and breaking trust is disgraceful,"

The program is due to be fully operational nationwide by 2020, but is being piloted for millions of people across the country already. The scheme will be mandatory.

At the moment the system is piecemeal — some are run by city councils, others are scored by private tech platforms which hold personal data.

Like private credit scores, a person's social score can move up and down depending on their behavior. The exact methodology is a secret — but examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online.

1. Banning you from flying or getting the train.

A railway station waiting hall in Hangzhou in February 2016. 

China has already started punishing people by restricting their travel.

Nine million people with low scores have been blocked from buying tickets for domestic flights citing official statistics.

They can also clamp down on luxury options — three million people are barred from getting business-class train tickets.

The eventual system will punish bad passengers specifically. Potential misdeeds include trying to ride with no ticket, loitering in front of boarding gates, or smoking in no-smoking areas.

2. Throttling your internet speeds.

This is according to Rachel Botsman,. The exact mechanics aren't clear yet.

, credit systems monitor whether people pay bills on time, much like financial credit trackers — but also ascribe a moral dimension.

Other mooted punishable offences include spending too long playing video games, wasting money on frivolous purchases and posting on social media.

Spreading fake news, specifically about terrorist attacks or airport security, will also be punishable offences.

3. Banning you — or your kids — from the best schools.

Students sing the national anthem in the playground during the flag-hoisting ceremony at their school in Shanghai., September 27, 2017.  CHANDAN KHANNA/AFP/Getty Images

17 people who refused to carry out military service last year were barred from enrolling in higher education, applying for high school, or continuing their studies

In July, a Chinese universitydenied a student admision as father had a bad social credit score.

4. Stopping you getting the best jobs.

The Great Hall of the People in Beijing, one of China's largest state buildings. 

"Trust-breaking" individuals would also be banned from doing management jobs in state-owned firms and big banks.

Some crimes, like fraud and embezzlement, would also have a big effect on social credit, Botsman reported.

5. Keeping you out of the best hotels.

The state-owned, five-star Beijing Hotel.

People who refused military service were also banned from some holidays and hotels — showing that vacation plans are fair game too.

The regime rewards people here as well as punishes them.

People with good scores can speed up travel applications to places like Europe, Botsman said.

An unidentified woman in Beijing said that she was able to book a hotel without having to pay a cash deposit because she had a good score.

6. Getting your dog taken away.

A woman holds her pet dog in the middle of a traffic jam in Anhui province in January 2014.  REUTERS/Stringer

The eastern Chinese city of Jinan started enforcing a social credit system for dog owners in 2017, whereby pet owners get points deducted if the dog is walked without a leash or causes public disturbances.

Those who lost all their points had their dogs confiscated and had to take a test on regulations required for pet ownership.

7. Being publicly named as a bad citizen.

China's President Xi Jinping looking disdainful in December 2017.  REUTERS/Fred Dufour/Pool

Naming and shaming is another tactic available. encourages companies to consult the blacklist before hiring people or giving them contracts.

However, people will be notified by the courts before they are added to the list, and are allowed to appeal against the decision within ten days of receiving the notification.

It's not clear when the list will start to be implemented.

A prototype blacklist already exists, and has been used to punish people.

The scrolling list on the left shows individual's names alongside partially redacted ID numbers, while the one on the right shows company names.

Li Xiaolin, a lawyer who was placed on the list in 2015, found himself unable to purchase plane tickets home while on a work trip,  He also couldn't apply for credit cards.

This video, posted by freelance journalist James O'Malley, shows an announcement on a bullet train from Beijing to Shanghai warning people not to misbehave — or else their "behavior will be recorded in individual credit information system."

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

A bike-share station in China.  Andy Zwikel

These perks were available to people in Rongcheng, eastern China, whose city council rolled out a social credit system for its citizens and was 

Despite the creepiness of the system — Human Rights Watch called it "chilling," while Botsman called it "a futuristic vision of Big Brother out of control" — some citizens say it's making them better people already.

A crossroad in Guangdong, China.  China Photos/Getty

A 32-year-old entrepreneur, who only gave his name as Chen, told Foreign Policy: "I feel like in the past six months, people's behaviour has gotten better and better.

"For example, when we drive, now we always stop in front of crosswalks. If you don't stop, you will lose your points.

"At first, we just worried about losing points, but now we got used to it."

[dex]

Well I guess nobody is licking ice cream at the grocery store in China.

[SeaMaiden]

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@dex wrote:

Well I guess nobody is licking ice cream at the grocery store in China.

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@dex    You are right!

[Suzeecat]

I see a lot of good examples in the article for holding people accountable for their behavior.  However, I can also see way more opportunities for this to be abused. 

[2blonde]

As horrifying as this all sounds to us, there likely will be a lot of improved behavior because of it.  To a degree I see the positive side of it (holding people accountable for their actions), but the excessive control is a bit overwhelming and frightening to me.  Penalizing a son for his father's actions, for instance, sounds unfair to me.

[haddon9]

Scary!   A way to control their citizens. 

In some ways we're being controlled here too in the US but it's not really the "American way".  I like to think that we value our freedoms too much but I can see how some are being slowly chipped away.

[Tabbycat]

@haddon9...I couldn't agree more. What's scary is, people don't even realize it how we're being manipulated. It all seems so normal.

[haddon9]

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@Tabbycat wrote:

@haddon9...I couldn't agree more. What's scary is, people don't even realize it how we're being manipulated. It all seems so normal.

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@Tabbycat   Yes you're right....lots of people don't even realize it.  Keep the masses happy and they won't know when they lose some precious freedoms.

[SeaMaiden]

yes...little by little step by step.  We really see it as normal like they do in China after awhile.   

[Sooner]

Well, they can take lessons right here!  I do not comment on a lot of topics here now because I know the thought police and people of one mind about certain people will pounce on you forthwith!

The haters call you a hater and accuse you of all sorts of things.  I have found it is usually haters who throw that term around to the rest of us by the way.  Remember the old saying "Takes one to know one?"  Well now it takes one to suspect (because they are biased) one!