Beauty

[Leeni]

Isomers and Ole's Truth Serum.

[magemay]

I found this to be a very daunting and overwhelming decision to make. Really? Why do some things need to be darn hard? lol But there are too many factors and how do we know (because of exposures) that any form of C still retains it's potency and benefits??

First of all, it appears to me that the question mark still encompasses Vitamin C's stability in all of it's forms. I'm not really convinced that from time of formulation to finished product, manner in which formulation is handled and contained, then time spent on shelf prior to purchase, then optimal storage conditions at home, then finally to application and then once on the skin that the benefits remain intact. Wheeww.........

How does such a fragile and unstable ingredient (in any form) retain it's potential efficacy?

[gazelle77]

I have been on auto ship for Elizabeth Grant's (SHOPHQ) C serum duo for over a year. I am happy with it.

[Ellen May]

I like Ole's Truth serum.

[Funloving]

I wrote and lost a long post explaining why I liked JM's C-Esta over other brands- POOF! ACK! This believe it or not, is the short form. Many plastics and derms were recommending this product some years back, which doesn't make it any better and certainly not cutting edge now. It was all about the results for those of us who loved it for what it did for our skin. And, it got A LOT of love. You'll see probably older reviews on MUA and some of the skin stores that rave this product too, switch and come back because of JM's superior results. I noticed the delivery system (now an air-tight pump) has changed and price has come down substantially.

At one time I read a scientific explanation of why topical ester C over l-ascorbic acid and other forms of C was superior, which actually made a lot of sense at the time. Too bad I can't remember a blasted thing about that now

But it truly was about results.

I do believe DMAE has merit. I was convinced after trying a natural pharmaceutical compound of pure DAE- you could pick from a variety of strengths, made to order. It was labeled and came in an amber bottle. The problem is we don't really know the long term potential (ill) effects. My skin has never been so lifted and firm.

Vit C Stability.. who really knows. Is one form more stable than another? Do other ingredients help keep C more stable? Should it be made fresh in very small quantities? Many keep their C in the fridge. I always keep it in the original box in a dark cabinet drawer. The violet bottle theory is interesting... thanks for that contribution.

The hunt for something which provides the same great results (FOR ME) as JM without the 'bad stuff' continues.

I love the guy's humble demeanor, but Ole's Truth Serum has a very synthetic orange smell and doesn't feel like real Vit. C (to ME.. JMO) I only tested a small sample.

[HappyDaze]

On 2/8/2014 magemay said:

I found this to be a very daunting and overwhelming decision to make. Really? Why do some things need to be darn hard? lol But there are too many factors and how do we know (because of exposures) that any form of C still retains it's potency and benefits??

First of all, it appears to me that the question mark still encompasses Vitamin C's stability in all of it's forms. I'm not really convinced that from time of formulation to finished product, manner in which formulation is handled and contained, then time spent on shelf prior to purchase, then optimal storage conditions at home, then finally to application and then once on the skin that the benefits remain intact. Wheeww.........

How does such a fragile and unstable ingredient (in any form) retain it's potential efficacy?

There are many, many scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals that deal with the very things you question. There are a few common threads among the results found throughout most of the studies and include pH level, most effective form(s) of vitamin c and delivery methods. They are interesting reads and show that yes, a fragile relatively unstable ingredient CAN and DOES remain effective given the proper conditions as noted above. Unfortunately, since most are published in peer review journals, you have to pay for a subscription unless you are an educator or student but libraries, rare as they are these days, have them for free.

The factors you mention have been tested and most studies show consistent results so it isn't just speculation and opinions out there about vitamin C. That is why I keep recommending to people to use these basic guidelines when trying to find a good quality vitamin C product as the majority of scientific studies agree on these very basic premises:

-the lower the pH the better- low pH, ideally under 5 is ideal for maximum efficacy

-delivery and storage mechanism should be a pump and dark bottle not a clear one since frequent exposure to light and air (and temp!) can rapidly degrade vitamin C potency

-for most effective vitamin C, L-ascorbic is the gold standard if your skin can tolerate it but others, such as MAP and SAP, are also highly regarded and less chance of irritation.

These aren't my opinions but scientific facts and for me, that is what I try to follow since, well, that is all I really got to go on! Others will argue about it but I stick with what I know from a scientific standpoint and my personal experience.

[BigBro6]

Since we are on the subject what Vitamin C cream ?

[MarenSeattle]

On 2/8/2014 BellaCarro said:

On 2/8/2014 Funloving said:

Marenseattle & BellaCarro - Thanks for the info on JM's C-esta. Bless my cotton socks... I must have had my head up my.... I was going on such great results alone. But yowza, parabens (and not as troubling to me0 dimethicone). You bet I can do much better.

I guess I started buying this before I was diligent about reading ingredient decks but I KNOW BETTER NOW. lol

I've tried the other pricier brands.. and the results of C-Esta have been SO MUCH better. My skin truly glows, is plumped and supple.... BUT I've run out, and won't be wasting my money on these gnarly ingredients again! I knew I wouldn't be buying it before you pointed this out... Even if it works like a charm... SO not worth it!

Thanks again! I feel so stupid since I pride myself on staying up on everything in a product. I struck the Timeless C off my list too, due to some unnecessary ingredients. I'll take a look at the threads and find something sans harmful ingredients. I'm still in research mode. I need to find one soon as C is an important part of my regimen.

Don't feel stupid! You got great results for whatever reason. I made many mistakes before I became diligent about reading ingredient decks. I still do. It's aggravating, though. Now, I go to stores and I know a lot more than the people selling it! I get some real annoyed and deer in headlights looks from s/a's now.

Stupid would be NOT using something that delivered real results!! Now you're better informed and know to go looking for products that deliver the same results without the ewww ingredients. It's all for the best!

[HappyDaze]

On 2/8/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 2/8/2014 BellaCarro said:

On 2/8/2014 Funloving said:

Marenseattle & BellaCarro - Thanks for the info on JM's C-esta. Bless my cotton socks... I must have had my head up my.... I was going on such great results alone. But yowza, parabens (and not as troubling to me0 dimethicone). You bet I can do much better.

I guess I started buying this before I was diligent about reading ingredient decks but I KNOW BETTER NOW. lol

I've tried the other pricier brands.. and the results of C-Esta have been SO MUCH better. My skin truly glows, is plumped and supple.... BUT I've run out, and won't be wasting my money on these gnarly ingredients again! I knew I wouldn't be buying it before you pointed this out... Even if it works like a charm... SO not worth it!

Thanks again! I feel so stupid since I pride myself on staying up on everything in a product. I struck the Timeless C off my list too, due to some unnecessary ingredients. I'll take a look at the threads and find something sans harmful ingredients. I'm still in research mode. I need to find one soon as C is an important part of my regimen.

Don't feel stupid! You got great results for whatever reason. I made many mistakes before I became diligent about reading ingredient decks. I still do. It's aggravating, though. Now, I go to stores and I know a lot more than the people selling it! I get some real annoyed and deer in headlights looks from s/a's now.

Stupid would be NOT using something that delivered real results!! Now you're better informed and know to go looking for products that deliver the same results without the ewww ingredients. It's all for the best!

Amen to that!!

[magemay]

On 2/8/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 2/8/2014 magemay said:

I found this to be a very daunting and overwhelming decision to make. Really? Why do some things need to be darn hard? lol But there are too many factors and how do we know (because of exposures) that any form of C still retains it's potency and benefits??

First of all, it appears to me that the question mark still encompasses Vitamin C's stability in all of it's forms. I'm not really convinced that from time of formulation to finished product, manner in which formulation is handled and contained, then time spent on shelf prior to purchase, then optimal storage conditions at home, then finally to application and then once on the skin that the benefits remain intact. Wheeww.........

How does such a fragile and unstable ingredient (in any form) retain it's potential efficacy?

There are many, many scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals that deal with the very things you question. There are a few common threads among the results found throughout most of the studies and include pH level, most effective form(s) of vitamin c and delivery methods. They are interesting reads and show that yes, a fragile relatively unstable ingredient CAN and DOES remain effective given the proper conditions as noted above. Unfortunately, since most are published in peer review journals, you have to pay for a subscription unless you are an educator or student but libraries, rare as they are these days, have them for free.

The factors you mention have been tested and most studies show consistent results so it isn't just speculation and opinions out there about vitamin C. That is why I keep recommending to people to use these basic guidelines when trying to find a good quality vitamin C product as the majority of scientific studies agree on these very basic premises:

-the lower the pH the better- low pH, ideally under 5 is ideal for maximum efficacy

-delivery and storage mechanism should be a pump and dark bottle not a clear one since frequent exposure to light and air (and temp!) can rapidly degrade vitamin C potency

-for most effective vitamin C, L-ascorbic is the gold standard if your skin can tolerate it but others, such as MAP and SAP, are also highly regarded and less chance of irritation.

These aren't my opinions but scientific facts and for me, that is what I try to follow since, well, that is all I really got to go on! Others will argue about it but I stick with what I know from a scientific standpoint and my personal experience.

Hi HD,

I appreciate your post and I do understand what you're saying and agree 100%. Much like you I've done my research in depth (I've dug pretty deep) and I've read the ones you've referenced, but that's what I do, I love science. However, still my question remains (perhaps I didn't do such a good job at making it in my attached post!). I'll try and do better this time around.

Once all of the factors that I've outlined in my previous post are in place, how do we know that once the formula, regardless of the C source and stabilization, touches the skin (there is a flash point) and actually does (because of it's fragility even when "stabilized") what it's intended to do? How do the antioxidant properties remain intact? From what I understand, the acidic properties are more likely to remain relatively stable, how do the antioxidant properties remain when there are so many variables? That's what I haven't been able to find a sufficient answer for while doing my own research.

I know that there are those (I have too) that have achieved some results in regards to brightness, but that's because it's an acid and that's the reason that the formulation has to remain well within the acidic levels for it not to compromise that. Most acids used can result in some level of "lightning" or brightness.