Beauty

[HappyDaze]

On 2/8/2014 magemay said:

Hi HD,

I appreciate your post and I do understand what you're saying and agree 100%. Much like you I've done my research in depth (I've dug pretty deep) and I've read the ones you've referenced, but that's what I do, I love science. However, still my question remains (perhaps I didn't do such a good job at making it in my attached post!). I'll try and do better this time around.

Once all of the factors that I've outlined in my previous post are in place, how do we know that once the formula, regardless of the C source and stabilization, touches the skin (there is a flash point) and actually does (because of it's fragility even when "stabilized") what it's intended to do? How do the antioxidant properties remain intact? From what I understand, the acidic properties are more likely to remain relatively stable, but what about the antioxidant properties remain when there are so many variables? That's what I haven't been able to find a sufficient answer for while doing my own research.

I know that there are those (I have too) that have achieved some results in regards to brightness, but that's because it's an acid and that's the reason that the formulation has to remain well within the acidic levels for it not to compromise that. Most acids used can result in some level of "lightning" or brightness.

ah gotcha! Yeah, unfortunately, with skincare it isn't like some of the independent studies they do with, say, vitamin supplements, where they go into various stores, pull a bottle of brands A, B, and C and test the potency levels and compare them to the label claims. That would be cool if they could (would?) do that, especially with something like a topical vitamin C or retinol product.

I was having a similar conversation with suzy about how do we really know a product is working well for us if we don't see any measurable, tangible results and like I told her, all we can do is do our research to see what ingredients are proven to support the skin on some level (e.g. antioxidant level, lipid barrier, moisture, etc) and use products containing those ingredients, while avoiding potentially harmful irritants. I mean, who knows what your skin my look like if you didn't use those ingredients and there really is no harm that can occur from using them so you don't have really anything to lose. I think we all want to "see" something happen but sometimes slow and steady wins the race and because so many of the changes are occurring at a cellular level (below the surface) you may not notice such slight changes in your skin over time or even be able to recognize or identify a change.

That is also why avoiding potential irritants like essential oils is important because even if the irritation is not readily seen, it is more than likely occurring and, over time, it will manifest itself in ways that you otherwise would not have seen like, say, more or premature sagging of the skin, loss of elasticity to the skin, rough texture, dullness, etc. But again, many think that if they don't "see" or feel any irritation, than the ingredient is fine. So it works both ways.

LOL, hope that all makes sense?

[Funloving]

That's why getting antioxidants and anti-inflammatories in food sources and GOOD supplements is so vital to good skin.

[Funloving]

This is an area where I wholeheartedly agree with Dr. Perricone. You can remodel your skin by internal methods.

[Funloving]

On 2/8/2014 MarenSeattle said:

On 2/8/2014 BellaCarro said:

On 2/8/2014 Funloving said:

Marenseattle & BellaCarro - Thanks for the info on JM's C-esta. Bless my cotton socks... I must have had my head up my.... I was going on such great results alone. But yowza, parabens (and not as troubling to me0 dimethicone). You bet I can do much better.

I guess I started buying this before I was diligent about reading ingredient decks but I KNOW BETTER NOW. lol

I've tried the other pricier brands.. and the results of C-Esta have been SO MUCH better. My skin truly glows, is plumped and supple.... BUT I've run out, and won't be wasting my money on these gnarly ingredients again! I knew I wouldn't be buying it before you pointed this out... Even if it works like a charm... SO not worth it!

Thanks again! I feel so stupid since I pride myself on staying up on everything in a product. I struck the Timeless C off my list too, due to some unnecessary ingredients. I'll take a look at the threads and find something sans harmful ingredients. I'm still in research mode. I need to find one soon as C is an important part of my regimen.

Don't feel stupid! You got great results for whatever reason. I made many mistakes before I became diligent about reading ingredient decks. I still do. It's aggravating, though. Now, I go to stores and I know a lot more than the people selling it! I get some real annoyed and deer in headlights looks from s/a's now.

Stupid would be NOT using something that delivered real results!! Now you're better informed and know to go looking for products that deliver the same results without the ewww ingredients. It's all for the best!

Thanks for the good words!!!

[magemay]

On 2/8/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 2/8/2014 magemay said:

Hi HD,

I appreciate your post and I do understand what you're saying and agree 100%. Much like you I've done my research in depth (I've dug pretty deep) and I've read the ones you've referenced, but that's what I do, I love science. However, still my question remains (perhaps I didn't do such a good job at making it in my attached post!). I'll try and do better this time around.

Once all of the factors that I've outlined in my previous post are in place, <em>how</em> do we know that once the formula, regardless of the C source and stabilization, touches the skin (there is a flash point) and actually <em>does</em> (because of it's fragility even when "stabilized") what it's intended to do? How do the antioxidant properties remain intact? From what I understand, the acidic properties are more likely to remain relatively stable, but what about the antioxidant properties remain when there are so many variables? That's what I haven't been able to find a sufficient answer for while doing my own research.

I know that there are those (I have too) that have achieved some results in regards to brightness, but that's because it's an acid and that's the reason that the formulation has to remain well within the acidic levels for it not to compromise that. Most acids used can result in some level of "lightning" or brightness.

ah gotcha! Yeah, unfortunately, with skincare it isn't like some of the independent studies they do with, say, vitamin supplements, where they go into various stores, pull a bottle of brands A, B, and C and test the potency levels and compare them to the label claims. That would be cool if they could (would?) do that, especially with something like a topical vitamin C or retinol product.

I was having a similar conversation with suzy about how do we really know a product is working well for us if we don't see any measurable, tangible results and like I told her, all we can do is do our research to see what ingredients are proven to support the skin on some level (e.g. antioxidant level, lipid barrier, moisture, etc) and use products containing those ingredients, while avoiding potentially harmful irritants. I mean, who knows what your skin my look like if you didn't use those ingredients and there really is no harm that can occur from using them so you don't have really anything to lose. I think we all want to "see" something happen but sometimes slow and steady wins the race and because so many of the changes are occurring at a cellular level (below the surface) you may not notice such slight changes in your skin over time or even be able to recognize or identify a change.

That is also why avoiding potential irritants like essential oils is important because even if the irritation is not readily seen, it is more than likely occurring and, over time, it will manifest itself in ways that you otherwise would not have seen like, say, more or premature sagging of the skin, loss of elasticity to the skin, rough texture, dullness, etc. But again, many think that if they don't "see" or feel any irritation, than the ingredient is fine. So it works both ways.

LOL, hope that all makes sense?

Yepper, it sure does and glad I made better sense the second time around.

So often I think that EO's have gotten a bum rap. I do believe they can be used beneficially given the knowledge and right pair of hands, so to speak. It's not really the EO's fault that they are used incorrectly, imo, it is the user and or the formulators.

Now, onto other things. HEY, it's Saturday Night!! What's in your shower?

[HappyDaze]

On 2/8/2014 magemay said

Yepper, it sure does and glad I made better sense the second time around.

So often I think that EO's have gotten a bum rap. I do believe they can be used beneficially given the knowledge and right pair of hands, so to speak. It's not really the EO's fault that they are used incorrectly, imo, it is the user and or the formulators.

Now, onto other things. HEY, it's Saturday Night!! What's in your shower?

noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just an FYI, I don't think all EOs are "bad" or irritants.

[magemay]

On 2/8/2014 HappyDaze said:

On 2/8/2014 magemay said

Yepper, it sure does and glad I made better sense the second time around.

So often I think that EO's have gotten a bum rap. I do believe they can be used beneficially given the knowledge and right pair of hands, so to speak. It's not really the EO's fault that they are used incorrectly, imo, it is the user and or the formulators.

Now, onto other things. HEY, it's Saturday Night!! What's in your shower?

noooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just an FYI, I don't think all EOs are "bad" or irritants.

Oh Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's that time again! lol btw, I still can't bring my self to take Mia into the shower, especially now!!!!

I know you don't HD and I've read your posts long enough to know that you have common sense. It's just the stereotypical verbiage such as known irritants that's used that keeps some them in an undeserved and misunderstood category.

Hey, enjoy your Saturday!!

[Montana]

Isomers Vitamin C-STEM 15% High Potency Serum.

[suzyQ3]

That is also why avoiding potential irritants like essential oils is important because even if the irritation is not readily seen, it is more than likely occurring and, over time, it will manifest itself in ways that you otherwise would not have seen like, say, more or premature sagging of the skin, loss of elasticity to the skin, rough texture, dullness, etc. But again, many think that if they don't "see" or feel any irritation, than the ingredient is fine. So it works both ways.

HD, I agree you with about the potential for irritation. I tend to avoid essential oils on my face mainly because of the sensitivity I have due to sun damage and the hideous treatment I had to endure to try to prevent precancerous from becoming cancerous.

But as you know, I will make an exception if it's something that's in such a minute amount in a product that is otherwise excellent for me.

[Retiredpsych]

Can you ladies tell me what essential oils are, and give some examples? This is an area I need to learn more about.