Beauty

[Harpa]

On 8/11/2014 JeanLouiseFinch said:

Thanks, Harpa. I agree there are other factors. Sometimes I just don't know what to think, what's working or what isn't, because I do take supplements and try to eat smart. No, my skin is not particularly sensitive. I started on RetinA a couple of years ago, under a derm's care following some facial surgery, to prevent scarring. It did what it was supposed to, the incisions healed beautifully. I ended up staying on it because it worked so well. I only use it a few times a week now, but an trying to decide if I keep things as is, drop the strength, or go to an OTC. I totally agree on overproduction of hyaluronan (hyaluronic acid). It seems to be in everything these days. It's a fine ingredient, but I think when you're getting it in a serum, moisturizer, BB/CC cream, and perhaps in supplements, it's too much.

I constantly re-think things, too.

Your statement brings to mind that RetinA was only meant as a temporary solution (for acne). Don't forget that there are other things besides retinoids that function the same in turning over the skin (and building collagen), not to mention your own natural turnover rate.

My educated guess would be that if you chose another turnover method/nudge, you would not lose what you gained.

Girl Detective, I also wanted to suggest that if your routine is working, just continue on your course. But by the same token, you can use retinoids (and anything else) any time of the day or night. Any sloughing-type ingredient, logically, requires sun protection (in one way or another) during the day.

[Kind1too]

Thanks for all the info ladies!

[Girl Detective]

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. I did notice that you mentioned retinoids are stronger and are by prescription. I also know that some companies boast ingredients that are close to the bottom of the list and may or may not be in amounts that are effective. Is there a certain amount I should be looking for? Does anyone use both retinoids and AHA's? Do you really need AHA's in the morning and retinoids at night or just the night treatment? Miracle Worker pads are retinoid, but are they in a strength that is effective? I guess I'm trying to figure out if I'm using an amount that will help because my skin is not irritated at all. Should it be? Thanks again for your knowledge.

[cassiem]

On 8/11/2014 Girl Detective said:

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. I did notice that you mentioned retinoids are stronger and are by prescription. I also know that some companies boast ingredients that are close to the bottom of the list and may or may not be in amounts that are effective. Is there a certain amount I should be looking for? Does anyone use both retinoids and AHA's? Do you really need AHA's in the morning and retinoids at night or just the night treatment? Miracle Worker pads are retinoid, but are they in a strength that is effective? I guess I'm trying to figure out if I'm using an amount that will help because my skin is not irritated at all. Should it be? Thanks again for your knowledge.

The percentage of retinol is really a matter of your skin and how sensitive it is and how it responds to retinol. Some people have good luck with products containing small percentages of retinol (like Alpha Hydrox Retinol Res-Q with .15% retinol) while others find better results with stronger retinols (like Peter Thomas Roth or NCN, which are both over 1% retinol). Neither one is a "best" for everyone, it's what works for their individual skin.

If you have never used retinol before, unless you have extremely strong, resistant skin that tolerates harsh ingredients well, I'd recommend starting with a lower strength retinol. You can always ramp up the strength as your skin adjusts. I used to use prescription Retin-A, but my sensitive skin no longer tolerates it. I'm actually having better results with an over the counter retinol that is much lower in strength.

[JeanLouiseFinch]

On 8/11/2014 Girl Detective said:

Thanks to everyone for your opinions. I did notice that you mentioned retinoids are stronger and are by prescription. I also know that some companies boast ingredients that are close to the bottom of the list and may or may not be in amounts that are effective. Is there a certain amount I should be looking for? Does anyone use both retinoids and AHA's? Do you really need AHA's in the morning and retinoids at night or just the night treatment? Miracle Worker pads are retinoid, but are they in a strength that is effective? I guess I'm trying to figure out if I'm using an amount that will help because my skin is not irritated at all. Should it be? Thanks again for your knowledge.

Retinol - no prescription, weaker than prescription RetinA and has to go through several chemical conversions to become retinoic acid, in order to be absorbed. My understanding in that it weakens more with each conversion, so if it's not at the top of the ingredient list it's pretty much worthless in the end. For Retinol, I'd look for the strongest one possible and have it at the top of the list so there's still something there that's going to do something for you.

I use both RetinA and AHA's. There are some contrary opinions, but common understanding and practice is to not use them at the same time because the RetinA is unstable and the AHA will render it ineffective. Dermatologists will recommend that AHA's are used in the morning and RetinA at night. due to RetinA causing increased sensitivity to the sunlight. For the weakened form retinol, I don't know that those rules are as crucial. I use an AHA treatment every morning and on alternating nights. On the in-between nights, I use the RetinA. If you've never used an AHA or prescription RetinA before, you should ease into it. AHA's can make your skin feel a little prickly, but it only lasts a short time. RetinA can make the user's skin peel and get flakey, if they do too much too soon. It's best to go very slow to let your skin adjust.

[Caitlinh429]

I personally use products with retinol and retinol palmitate, as I have sensitive skin, and my skin absolutely glows with them. If you have sensitive skin you really should just bang your skin with a full blown retinoid as you will most likely become red and peel.

Cassiem cleared up my original post as bit, but it is essentially saying the same thing. Retinoids = prescription & higher dose, retinols=no prescription & lower dose.

JeanLouiseFinch- I use retinol because of my sensitive skin. My skin can simply not handle a big dose of retinA. Like others have stated though, it really depends on your skin and how your skin reacts to products. So instead of using one product with retinA, I use 3-4 products that have retinol: a cleanser, serum, moisturizer w/ spf & night cream. I also have a fantastic 2-step vitamin a mask too (that i love love loveee, SSC skin detailer). The slower conversions work just fine on my skin and since I use multiple products, my skin absorbs much more nutrients than just using 1 retinA product.

GirlDetective- When it comes to products, makeup, etc that say they have a certain ingredient I have one major rule of thumb: is it in the top 50% of ingredients? If not, then don't waste your $. Of course there are also other problems like cosmetic industry using snag words to get your attention when in reality the ingredient is bologna (think of the food industry, "all-natural" is not the same as "100% all natural" or "100% organic"). But that is an entire other conversation. Always look at ingredient list and look at reviews. When it comes to retinols and AHA's used together: you really shouldn't as both retinols and aha's naturally exfoliate the skin and generate new collagen. Now this all comes down to the strength of the retinol and the aha and obviously your skin. Using a retinoid and then glycolic acid on your skin might be a bad, bad decision. Personally, I use my retinol in the morning and my products with aha's at night (but i also have sensitive skin). I can use my acne/glycolic cleanser at night and use my retinol night cream together with no problem however, but the retinol also isn't super strong in the night cream.

[LTT1]

My suggestion is that if your skin seems to like it, stick with it!

guess who had a terrible rxn on hands and arms due to Strivectin face and neck with retinol? The odd thing is this product did not break out the side part of my face... that area has melasma spotting.

I am having good luck with Dr. Gross Ferrulic + Retinol for eyes and using EL Night Repair first. Really looking good!

[IControlMyHappiness]

Ms. CatH....I enjoyed your response so much, I'm going to print it out so I don't forget. Speaking of Paulaschoice reviews of items, I also find it very helpful and it has stopped be from purchasing quite a few products. I did not know about the site called cosmeticscop.com so I have to go their right now and see what I can learn.

[cassiem]

On 8/11/2014 CaitlinH said:

I personally use products with retinol and retinol palmitate, as I have sensitive skin, and my skin absolutely glows with them. If you have sensitive skin you really should just bang your skin with a full blown retinoid as you will most likely become red and peel.

Cassiem cleared up my original post as bit, but it is essentially saying the same thing. Retinoids = prescription & higher dose, retinols=no prescription & lower dose.

Caitlin, I respectfully disagree, my post was not saying the same thing as your post. Retinoids are not prescription and higher dose. Retinoid is the category name for all vitamin a derived ingredients, including retinol. Retinol is a retinoid.

Retinoids: Large group of over 2,500 chemicals related to vitamin A. Topical, over-the-counter retinoids include retinol, retinyl palmitate, retinaldehyde, and retinyl linoleate, among others. Prescription retinoids include tretinoin (Renova, Retin-A), adapalene (Differin), and tazarotene (Tazorac). Other retinoid chemicals include beta-carotene and various carotenoids found in brightly colored and dark green fruits and vegetables. (From http://www.paulaschoice.com/cosmetic-ingredient-dictionary/definition/prescription-drugs/retinoids)

From a study by the National a Institute for Health: Aging of skin is an intricate biological process consisting of two types. While intrinsic or chronological aging is an inevitable process, photoaging involves the premature aging of skin occurring due to cumulative exposure to ultraviolet radiation. Chronological and photoaging both have clinically differentiable manifestations. Various natural and synthetic retinoids have been explored for the treatment of aging and many of them have shown histological and clinical improvement, but most of the studies have been carried out in patients presenting with photoaged skin. Amongst the retinoids, tretinoin possibly is the most potent and certainly the most widely investigated retinoid for photoaging therapy. Although retinoids show promise in the treatment of skin aging, irritant reactions such as burning, scaling or dermatitis associated with retinoid therapy limit their acceptance by patients. This problem is more prominent with tretinoin and tazarotene whereas other retinoids mainly represented by retinaldehyde and retinol are considerably less irritating. In order to minimize these side effects, various novel drug delivery systems have been developed. In particular, nanoparticles have shown a good potential in improving the stability, tolerability and efficacy of retinoids like tretinoin and retinol. However, more elaborate clinical studies are required to confirm their advantage in the delivery of topical retinoids. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2699641/)