Beauty

[Harpa]

On 8/13/2014 wackers said:

Harpa - I do believe that carrier oils play a very valuable service carrying nutrients down into the skin. It comes down to the order of application. We don't start with oils or moisturizers before our lighter weight serums (or else what nutrients would these oils be delivering) so I don't feel one counter acts the other. I rather apply my serums, as directed on clean dry skin, then follow up with whatever moisturizers and oils I choose to use once they have absorbed. And I do use oils as my final step quite often.

Sorry but I don't quite see whatever dilemma you are suggesting - maybe I just don't get it! Certainly won't be the first time.

I wasn't suggesting any dilemma. It is just conceivable to me that -whatever- penetration would not be as hindered as thought/taught if the oil is a bit on the skin first. We do have our own sebum that also carries the nutrients. I'm also thinking of those who use "oil free," which oil they depend upon, and should depend upon, is their own sebum.

(I was just adding to that part of the discussion. There are other factors as to what & how much penetration actually does occur.)

One of these days, I'll experiment and reverse my normal application protocol, which is the same as what you do. (Although I don't use an oil type cleanser in the a.m.)

[Wackers3]

On 8/13/2014 Harpa said:

On 8/13/2014 wackers said:

Harpa - I do believe that carrier oils play a very valuable service carrying nutrients down into the skin. It comes down to the order of application. We don't start with oils or moisturizers before our lighter weight serums (or else what nutrients would these oils be delivering) so I don't feel one counter acts the other. I rather apply my serums, as directed on clean dry skin, then follow up with whatever moisturizers and oils I choose to use once they have absorbed. And I do use oils as my final step quite often.

Sorry but I don't quite see whatever dilemma you are suggesting - maybe I just don't get it! Certainly won't be the first time.

I wasn't suggesting any dilemma. It is just conceivable to me that -whatever- penetration would not be as hindered as thought/taught if the oil is a bit on the skin first. We do have our own sebum that also carries the nutrients. I'm also thinking of those who use "oil free," which oil they depend upon, and should depend upon, is their own sebum.

(I was just adding to that part of the discussion. There are other factors as to what & how much penetration actually does occur.)

One of these days, I'll experiment and reverse my normal application protocol, which is the same as what you do. (Although I don't use an oil type cleanser in the a.m.)

It also might depend on different serums having different requirements based on their formulas. The sites where it was mentioned might have unique formulations that work at their top efficiency only when applied to dry, oil free skin. I know there are other C serums that are created within an oil base so I would assume an oil free surface would not be necessary for them.
One C serum with 5 different C ingredients did specify not using an oil cleanser which might be a result of ensuring all 5 C's do absorb. I do think that could also be accomplished by using a toner or similar to ensure the skin's surface was oil free.

[suzyQ3]

On 8/13/2014 wackers said:

Harpa - I do believe that carrier oils play a very valuable service carrying nutrients down into the skin. It comes down to the order of application. We don't start with oils or moisturizers before our lighter weight serums (or else what nutrients would these oils be delivering) so I don't feel one counter acts the other. I rather apply my serums, as directed on clean dry skin, then follow up with whatever moisturizers and oils I choose to use once they have absorbed. And I do use oils as my final step quite often.

Sorry but I don't quite see whatever dilemma you are suggesting - maybe I just don't get it! Certainly won't be the first time.

Same here. Whatever carrier oils I use go on last, in the hope that they seal everything in. But I know that some prefer to put oil on first. Of course, this doesn't really relate to the issue of a cleansing oil, which I just haven't gotten around to trying.

You know, I can spout off facts and stats pretty well, but I think even I have my limits. At some point, my eyes start to glaze over with some of these detailed discussions about pH of this and other insider kind of stuff.

Maybe at some point we lose the bigger picture? Can't see the forest for the trees?

[sinut]

Hi, I read that you were looking for vitamin C serum. I have read an extensive amount of research of vitamin C serums. It has to read L-ascorbic, and has to be at least 20% to be effective. L-ascorbic is vitamin C. It has to be in a dark colored bottle when you receive it. All of the other cosmetic companies are stating that there is vitamin C in some of their products. Vitamin C will not be effective when mixed with other ingredients. This was on the Dr. OZ show recently. The only one that I have found is from a company called NUFOUNTAIN. They shipped it to me promptly and gave me information about it. It is freshly made and the date is handwritten on there when it was made. Vitamin C serum has a shelf life. I have been using it for about three months now, and am on my second bottle. I have seen a difference in my skin (facial). I did not tell anyone I was using it, and my family told me my skin looked good!!! Wanted to know what was up??? It stings a little at first, but kept it up and now doesn't sting at all. It says to keep it in a dark place so I put it in my dresser drawer since I use that drawer every day. Hope this answers your question !!

[myshell624]

On 8/10/2014 Sweet Susie said:

On 8/9/2014 Dharma_Initiative said: What is the pH of the ASDM serum?

Well, even though my suggestions are typically ignored, I'm still going to jump into this discussion, lol!

I just recently purchased ASDM's Vitamin C E & Ferulic serum. The pH of my bottle tested to be 3.

I got tired of not knowing what the pH of stuff was so I purchased pH testing strips (you can find them on Amazon).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is watery and dries down with no residue at all, it feels like there is nothing on my skin. It is not irritating to my skin.

I've also used NCN's Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum and like it very much. It is also watery and dries down the same as the ASDM serum. It is not irritating to my skin. They say their serum has a pH 2 but my bottle tested to be pH 4 (huge difference).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is $39 for 2 oz.

The NCN Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum is $39.95 for 1.3 oz.

The NCN serum has L-ascorbic acid and MAP with pH 2 (but my bottle tested pH 4); the ASDM serum has L-ascorbic acid with pH 3.

I've read that L-ascorbic acid is more readily absorbed into the skin than MAP. The pH must be lower than 3.5 for Vit. C to enter the skin but if the pH is too low, it can be irritating to the skin.

The NCN serum includes the anti-oxidant glutathione; ASDM does not. Glutathione is not a deal-breaker for me. I've Googled around quite a bit for independent research about topical application of glutathione and haven't found much information. If a company is selling glutathione, they say topical application is effective; otherwise, I've read that the skin doesn't absorb glutathione. So, the jury is still out on topical application of glutathione as an anti-aging anti-oxidant as far as I'm concerned.

I have not tried the ASDM 15% MAP Vit. C serum (the one without ferulic acid) and can't comment on the pH of the serum.

ASDM told me their L-Ascorbic acid serum is a ph of 3.3 which goes with what you found when you tested it. I'm surprised the NCN serum tested a 4. Did you test it right after purchasing or had you had it awhile? Nancy has a lot of good information on her site about the proper ph of vitamin c.

[magemay]

On 8/13/2014 myshell624 said:

On 8/10/2014 Sweet Susie said:

On 8/9/2014 Dharma_Initiative said: What is the pH of the ASDM serum?

Well, even though my suggestions are typically ignored, I'm still going to jump into this discussion, lol!

I just recently purchased ASDM's Vitamin C E & Ferulic serum. The pH of my bottle tested to be 3.

I got tired of not knowing what the pH of stuff was so I purchased pH testing strips (you can find them on Amazon).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is watery and dries down with no residue at all, it feels like there is nothing on my skin. It is not irritating to my skin.

I've also used NCN's Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum and like it very much. It is also watery and dries down the same as the ASDM serum. It is not irritating to my skin. They say their serum has a pH 2 but my bottle tested to be pH 4 (huge difference).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is $39 for 2 oz.

The NCN Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum is $39.95 for 1.3 oz.

The NCN serum has L-ascorbic acid and MAP with pH 2 (but my bottle tested pH 4); the ASDM serum has L-ascorbic acid with pH 3.

I've read that L-ascorbic acid is more readily absorbed into the skin than MAP. The pH must be lower than 3.5 for Vit. C to enter the skin but if the pH is too low, it can be irritating to the skin.

The NCN serum includes the anti-oxidant glutathione; ASDM does not. Glutathione is not a deal-breaker for me. I've Googled around quite a bit for independent research about topical application of glutathione and haven't found much information. If a company is selling glutathione, they say topical application is effective; otherwise, I've read that the skin doesn't absorb glutathione. So, the jury is still out on topical application of glutathione as an anti-aging anti-oxidant as far as I'm concerned.

I have not tried the ASDM 15% MAP Vit. C serum (the one without ferulic acid) and can't comment on the pH of the serum.

ASDM told me their L-Ascorbic acid serum is a ph of 3.3 which goes with what you found when you tested it. I'm surprised the NCN serum tested a 4. Did you test it right after purchasing or had you had it awhile? Nancy has a lot of good information on her site about the proper ph of vitamin c.

There may be an elevated ph for 2 reasons, one being that the formulators use digital ph meters (so there will be some variations if you use the paper to test). The other is that the L-Ascorbic Acid needs to be <3.3 (depending on the raw ingredient manufacturer) and the MAP needs to be somewhere between 5.5 to 6 ph in order to maintain efficacy.

I'm not sure how either LAA or MAP would be effective if the finished product has a ph of 4. I would have to learn more, because it seems to me that the 2 forms would actually have trouble co-existing at a ph of 4.

[myshell624]

On 8/13/2014 magemay said:

On 8/13/2014 myshell624 said:

On 8/10/2014 Sweet Susie said:

On 8/9/2014 Dharma_Initiative said: What is the pH of the ASDM serum?

Well, even though my suggestions are typically ignored, I'm still going to jump into this discussion, lol!

I just recently purchased ASDM's Vitamin C E & Ferulic serum. The pH of my bottle tested to be 3.

I got tired of not knowing what the pH of stuff was so I purchased pH testing strips (you can find them on Amazon).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is watery and dries down with no residue at all, it feels like there is nothing on my skin. It is not irritating to my skin.

I've also used NCN's Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum and like it very much. It is also watery and dries down the same as the ASDM serum. It is not irritating to my skin. They say their serum has a pH 2 but my bottle tested to be pH 4 (huge difference).

The ASDM Vit. C E Ferulic serum is $39 for 2 oz.

The NCN Vit. C E Ferulic Glutathione serum is $39.95 for 1.3 oz.

The NCN serum has L-ascorbic acid and MAP with pH 2 (but my bottle tested pH 4); the ASDM serum has L-ascorbic acid with pH 3.

I've read that L-ascorbic acid is more readily absorbed into the skin than MAP. The pH must be lower than 3.5 for Vit. C to enter the skin but if the pH is too low, it can be irritating to the skin.

The NCN serum includes the anti-oxidant glutathione; ASDM does not. Glutathione is not a deal-breaker for me. I've Googled around quite a bit for independent research about topical application of glutathione and haven't found much information. If a company is selling glutathione, they say topical application is effective; otherwise, I've read that the skin doesn't absorb glutathione. So, the jury is still out on topical application of glutathione as an anti-aging anti-oxidant as far as I'm concerned.

I have not tried the ASDM 15% MAP Vit. C serum (the one without ferulic acid) and can't comment on the pH of the serum.

ASDM told me their L-Ascorbic acid serum is a ph of 3.3 which goes with what you found when you tested it. I'm surprised the NCN serum tested a 4. Did you test it right after purchasing or had you had it awhile? Nancy has a lot of good information on her site about the proper ph of vitamin c.

There may be an elevated ph for 2 reasons, one being that the formulators use digital ph meters (so there will be some variations if you use the paper to test). The other is that the L-Ascorbic Acid needs to be <3.3 (depending on the raw ingredient manufacturer) and the MAP needs to be somewhere between 5.5 to 6 ph in order to maintain efficacy.

I'm not sure how either LAA or MAP would be effective if the finished product has a ph of 4. I would have to learn more, because it seems to me that the 2 forms would actually have trouble co-existing at a ph of 4.

According to the NCN site the ph of their serum is a 2. That's why I was curious about why it might test higher.

[suzyQ3]

myshell64, I know that at one point when I spoke with Nanci, she said something to the effect of always trying to keep the ph at or about 2.5. I didn't mention that online it says 2 because I didn't think it was crucial.

So I am surprised as well that it would test at such a higher level. But as I posted in another thread, I think I'm reaching that glazed-eye level when it comes to all these details.

[HappyDaze]

myshell, I tested my NCN and it tested at 2 so who knows. Maybe it depends on which one she has, what dispenser/packaging (remember she changed it a few times) and how fresh it is. I have two bottles- one I've been using for a few months now and a new one I hadn't used yet and both test the same. *shrug*

[MarenSeattle]

On 8/13/2014 suzyQ3 said:

myshell64, I know that at one point when I spoke with Nanci, she said something to the effect of always trying to keep the ph at or about 2.5. I didn't mention that online it says 2 because I didn't think it was crucial.

So I am surprised as well that it would test at such a higher level. But as I posted in another thread, I think I'm reaching that glazed-eye level when it comes to all these details.

I THINK myshell was referring to ASDM's Vitamin C products. She'll correct me if I'm wrong -- or you can correct me if I'm thinking of the wrong post.