Beauty

[PurpleBunny]

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@Drythe wrote:

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@PurpleBunny wrote:

Don't be so sure that the "cruelty free" products that you are buying in good faith - really are cruelty free. I worked in the beauty industry for years and the company I worked for had their own line of products. The company would advertise, "we do not test on animals."  The caveat was, no, WE did not test on animals ... but that didn't mean that our suppliers didn't. 

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@PurpleBunny

I'm not what would be described as a gullible person.  However, thanks for the warning! I do many don't know that there IS a difference.

When I accept that a product is Cruelty Free I have reliable / scientific / 2nd source conformation that it is BOTH Vertically (includes all products from outside the company) and Horizontally free (what you are speaking of just inside the company walls) cruelty free within the company, and that the credentialing is not done by someone who accepts payment in any form from the vendor.

There is actually a Q vendor who has a 'bunny' who is Horizontally Cruelty Free, and not from the big 3.  Guess it doesn't matter to some, but to me it is critical.

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I'm glad to pass it on. It always bothered me when I worked there. If anybody ever asked me directly, I told them the truth. 

[PurpleBunny]

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@Tantrum wrote:

I'm a woman of NO color I guess you'd say, and I have just as hard a time finding a match for my pale, cool-toned skin! I literally have drawers FULL of foundations that are too light or too dark or too yellow. The majority perform wonderfully and would be perfect...except for not matching my skin AT ALL. When you add in the CF factor, it complicated the quest for a product exponentially! I feel your struggle....

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You and me both. I actually used to use talcum powder as pressed powder. Everything else was too yellow for me. Luckily, now they have a wide range of shades in most brands.  

[PurpleBunny]

@Drythe  I love Chaz. And I love Jeff Lewis!

[Drythe]

@JeanLouiseFinch

Re:  your post here.

At one time I hoped that I could start an on going thread where those interested in CF beauty could discuss new / existing CF products, what people had found, how it was working for them, where they found it, ingredients, etc.

I have NO interest in discussing the ethics of participants decision to use, or not use CF products.

However, It quickly became apparent that every attempt to discuss CF products, even in the most modest way, quickly turned into defensiveness about who does/doesn't eat meat, why someone isn't going to stop eating meat, who wears leather shoes, or carries, leather bags, etc.

I do not see that anyone on this thread was critical of anyone who eats meat, or made it their business what someone else bought, who thought that people didn't have individual choice, or that there were insults aimed at those who did not choose to go Cruelty Free. I saw no criticisms.

I regret that you felt that way.

I use WEN by Chaz Dean ~ certified 100% Cruelty Free ~ ALWAYS

[JeanLouiseFinch]

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@Drythe wrote:

@JeanLouiseFinch

Re:  your post here.

At one time I hoped that I could start an on going thread where those interested in CF beauty could discuss new / existing CF products, what people had found, how it was working for them, where they found it, ingredients, etc.

I have NO interest in discussing the ethics of participants decision to use, or not use CF products.

However, It quickly became apparent that every attempt to discuss CF products, even in the most modest way, quickly turned into defensiveness about who does/doesn't eat meat, why someone isn't going to stop eating meat, who wears leather shoes, or carries, leather bags, etc.

I do not see that anyone on this thread was critical of anyone who eats meat, or made it their business what someone else bought, who thought that people didn't have individual choice, or that there were insults aimed at those who did not choose to go Cruelty Free. I saw no criticisms.

I regret that you felt that way.

I use WEN by Chaz Dean ~ certified 100% Cruelty Free ~ ALWAYS

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@Drythe - I am not familiar with the prior threads you are referring to.  Similarly, maybe you aren't familiar with the ones I'm thinking of, but I have seen demeaning comments directed at some who aren't cruelty free advocates.  In fairness, it very well could go both ways, regardless of if either of us has seen it or not.  Regarding my comment, in this thread, I wasn't referring to anything in this thread, but more in general, hoping that there would be tolerance going forward.  That's all.

[Drythe]

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@JeanLouiseFinch wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

@JeanLouiseFinch

Re:  your post here.

At one time I hoped that I could start an on going thread where those interested in CF beauty could discuss new / existing CF products, what people had found, how it was working for them, where they found it, ingredients, etc.

I have NO interest in discussing the ethics of participants decision to use, or not use CF products.

However, It quickly became apparent that every attempt to discuss CF products, even in the most modest way, quickly turned into defensiveness about who does/doesn't eat meat, why someone isn't going to stop eating meat, who wears leather shoes, or carries, leather bags, etc.

I do not see that anyone on this thread was critical of anyone who eats meat, or made it their business what someone else bought, who thought that people didn't have individual choice, or that there were insults aimed at those who did not choose to go Cruelty Free. I saw no criticisms.

I regret that you felt that way.

I use WEN by Chaz Dean ~ certified 100% Cruelty Free ~ ALWAYS

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@Drythe - I am not familiar with the prior threads you are referring to.  Similarly, maybe you aren't familiar with the ones I'm thinking of, but I have seen demeaning comments directed at some who aren't cruelty free advocates.  In fairness, it very well could go both ways, regardless of if either of us has seen it or not.  Regarding my comment, in this thread, I wasn't referring to anything in this thread, but more in general, hoping that there would be tolerance going forward.  That's all.

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@JeanLouiseFinch

Obviously I was not clear ~ sorry.

What I was trying to say is that at one time I hoped for a place where those interested could discuss CF products. No judgements, just new products,outcomes,sources,etc.

But, I HAVE seen the mean both ways so often that I gave up on my little seed of an idea for discussion of CF products without ever trying to plant, much less nurture it.  

No offense intended.

Namaste.

[itiswhatitis]

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@JeanLouiseFinch wrote:

If I understand the OP correctly, she's asking about patronizing stores that sell non-cruelty free products even though she herself is committed to using cruelty free.  IMO, this would eliminate all shopping/buying.  Even if you shop a CF company's website, you can't be 100% certain that even a fraction of your money isn't going somewhere you may not agree with, as in the money they pay to maintain the website may also be mingled with money paid by non-CF websites.  Ulta sells a mix of beauty products that aren't CF so what's the difference between shopping there and shopping at Sephora? You wouldn't be able to shop in supermarkets because of the product mix.  You couldn't shop in any mall, not just Sephora, because certain stores sell leather shoes and purses, fur coats, etc.  You couldn't shop at all on QVC, HSN, Evine, etc. because they have a mix of products.  You see where I'm going.  It's up to the individual where they want to draw their own line of how far they'll go.

This is a complicated issue.  I never used to even think about it.  Then I began thinking about it and decided to go CF for skincare and makeup.  Lately, though, I've even been rethinking that again. If something I choose to use is CF, great.  But if something that works well for me isn't, it's nobody's business what I buy.  I'll never stop eating meat and if the testing on animals is going to help create a medical procedure or drug that can help better a life or save a life, I'm all for it.  And if a mouse decides to invade my garage, he's toast.  It's not my job to insult or demean someone for their makeup or skincare choices.  I would also hope that those here who believe in freedom of choice will refrain from insulting those who may use products known to be non-CF.  The argument about CF skincare or cosmetics is not one I wish to engage in any longer.  

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[itiswhatitis]

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@JeanLouiseFinch wrote:

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@Drythe wrote:

@JeanLouiseFinch

Re:  your post here.

At one time I hoped that I could start an on going thread where those interested in CF beauty could discuss new / existing CF products, what people had found, how it was working for them, where they found it, ingredients, etc.

I have NO interest in discussing the ethics of participants decision to use, or not use CF products.

However, It quickly became apparent that every attempt to discuss CF products, even in the most modest way, quickly turned into defensiveness about who does/doesn't eat meat, why someone isn't going to stop eating meat, who wears leather shoes, or carries, leather bags, etc.

I do not see that anyone on this thread was critical of anyone who eats meat, or made it their business what someone else bought, who thought that people didn't have individual choice, or that there were insults aimed at those who did not choose to go Cruelty Free. I saw no criticisms.

I regret that you felt that way.

I use WEN by Chaz Dean ~ certified 100% Cruelty Free ~ ALWAYS

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@Drythe - I am not familiar with the prior threads you are referring to.  Similarly, maybe you aren't familiar with the ones I'm thinking of, but I have seen demeaning comments directed at some who aren't cruelty free advocates.  In fairness, it very well could go both ways, regardless of if either of us has seen it or not.  Regarding my comment, in this thread, I wasn't referring to anything in this thread, but more in general, hoping that there would be tolerance going forward.  That's all.

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@JeanLouiseFinch, that kind of intolerance has definitely been leveled toward me in other discussions of animal rights.  

[HappyDaze]

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@Drythe wrote:

@JeanLouiseFinch

Re:  your post here.

At one time I hoped that I could start an on going thread where those interested in CF beauty could discuss new / existing CF products, what people had found, how it was working for them, where they found it, ingredients, etc.

I have NO interest in discussing the ethics of participants decision to use, or not use CF products.

However, It quickly became apparent that every attempt to discuss CF products, even in the most modest way, quickly turned into defensiveness about who does/doesn't eat meat, why someone isn't going to stop eating meat, who wears leather shoes, or carries, leather bags, etc.

I do not see that anyone on this thread was critical of anyone who eats meat, or made it their business what someone else bought, who thought that people didn't have individual choice, or that there were insults aimed at those who did not choose to go Cruelty Free. I saw no criticisms.

I regret that you felt that way.

I use WEN by Chaz Dean ~ certified 100% Cruelty Free ~ ALWAYS

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I know @Drythe i would love to be able to have a thread like that and have seen many attempts by various people try to start one but for some reason, those that don't use CF products cannot just bypass the thread and allow us to share- they just have to come into the thread and try to stir the pot, pointing fingers, insinuating everyone is a hypocrite, and yes, essentially trying to turn it into something more than CF users simply sharing products and sites they love. What a shame adults have to act like children and bullies. But we see that often enough on one particular forum now, don't we. Sad.