Among Friends

[chrystaltree]

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@BLH wrote:

Student loan debt is good debt compared to credit card debt.  They say you should never borrow more and you're going to make during your first year of working.  I know students who don't need the money, but use the loan for spring break vacations, cars, nicer apartments, etc.  We paid for our two sons educations.  We worked and saved and lived off of my husband's income and used my income for college.  What I make in a year paid for a year of college.  For the ten years that we had kids in college we didn't go on vacation, didn't do any improvements to our home or spent any money needlessly.  My kids didn't have their own computers, cell phones or cars until they bought them themselves.  We ate "Hamburger Helper" without the hamburger so they could go to college.  HAHA.  Just kidding.  It was a stuggle, but well worth it.

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Bingo!   We did the same.  We have two girls who graduated college without owing a single dollar in student loans.  It did not come easy, there were sacrifices.  But it paid off!  Hubby and I worked/saved and as family we lived realistically and as much as we could we avoided un-necessary, frivolous expenses.  Like cell phones for 11 years olds.  We had one desk top computer that the girls shared right through high school.  It didn't stop either one from graduating with honors.  Cars?  They got cars after they graduated college and could pay for them themselves.  Okay, Dad and I helped with the down payments.  They went to State colleges and one majored in computer systems design and the other majored in medical technology.  They knew Dad and I were not going to foot the bill if they wanted to major in History or Sociology or Business Administration.    They both graduated and had several job offers the day they graduated and started their careers making $50K plus a year.  Because they didn't go to college for fun and good times and spring break frolics.  They went to college to prepare themselves for high paying jobs when they were through.  Now they can have all the fun and games and trips to tropical islands and nights out with friends that they want.  And they can afford it. 

[LTT1]

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@chrystaltree wrote:

 Today's kids have to have a PLAN for the careers, they can't just wing it   A college education is an investment, so our children have to choose careers that will allow them to pay off that investment.  The days when have a college degree alone means something ended a very long time ago.  A kid who does not come from a well off family or who borrowed a significant amount of money does not have the luxury of just going to college for the fun of it.  They have to come out with a career, well paying career that has a future.  I feel so bad for all those business administration and liberal arts students who graduate and assume their degrees will give them a leg up in the working world.  They interview with people like me and that's the first time that they hear that, they can't do anything.    As parents, we have to do a better job at teaching our kids the reality of a college education.  It's an expensive luxury if they don't come out of college with a real career.     

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@chrystaltree

I hope you don't think I am prying, but you mentioned that they interview with you and I'm curious as to your career?  I just like to be knowledgeable!  thanks

Also, I agree with the statement about "as parents..."

Sometimes I get the feeling that suggesting their students are not "college material" is resented and that we expect everyone to be "entitled" to a college degree.  "Not college material" should be changed to "more suited to a technical degree or certification"... something impressive and not necessarily inferior?  Is there such a term?

[cerb]

The student loan "bubble" is discussed quite a bit in the media now, and it's an acknowledged problem.  Colleges really need to find a way to keep rising costs down.  In California, the cost of tuition doubled in a 5 year period, though people's incomes did not increase.  

Of course students need to do their part too.  Take and pass as many AP tests in high school as they can.  Attend community college.  Get as many scholarships and as much aid as possible.  (I think the availability of scholarships is often overstated - yes, there are lots of scholarships, but many of them are only for $100 so they're not necessarily that helpful.)  Sometimes the expensive schools offer better financial aid packages than the less expensive schools do, so keep an open mind.  And of course, choose their major carefully so they're marketable when it comes to finding a job. They also need to use common sense and live modestly.

That said, my daughter did all of those things.  She got her B.S. degree debt-free, but now it's a different story.  She is attending 4 years of veterinary school and will finish almost $200,000 in debt.  There is no other route by which she can become a veterinarian.  It will probably take her 10-20 years to pay off that debt.  At least she'll be working at a job she enjoys.  (P.S. - the veterinary school did not hold it against her that she attended community college followed by a mid-tier state school, so those are valid options even for those who want to continue their education past a bachelor's degree.)

[LTT1]

@cerb  Congratulations and good work for your daughter!  You must be very proud!  Vet schools used to be more difficult to get into than medical school... is this still true?

And I thought vets made an outstanding yearly salary... has this changed also?

[sfnative]

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@Nataliesgramma wrote:

My son-in-law came from a large family and his College education was funded by Scholarships and Student Loans. He was able to land a good job in his chosen field, but it is entry level. I can't believe how much he owes for his Student Loans.

They purchased a modest home and are frugal with their money, but they are struggling. I feel bad for the kids who can't find a decent job after college.

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@Nataliesgramma

Right off, I think it's wonderful that your SIL was able to qualify for and obtain schoarships!  A majority of prospective college bound students cannot, so he must consider himself fortunate in that regard.  And, of course, the amount of the student loans has everything to do with the tuition charge by the university: generally speaking, big name university - big time costs.

I'm going to speak to my hsband's experience, which I hope will make sense to you, but I must preface it by telling you that he went to law school for 3 years (you talk about expensive tuition!), then decided to go back to college for his engineering degree.  Truly - he was meant to be an engineer, but that law school debt was horrid.

OK - now he's back in school for his engineering degree and, yes, on student and GI loans.  When he graduated (now he has 2 and nearly 3 degrees), he started his engneering career in Silicon Valley with Rockwell.  His was an "entry level" engineering position in 1973.  I believe his salary at that time was $45,000/annum.  We were thrilled!

Important point here:  In many to most cases it's going to be "entry level" in your chosen field.  THERE'S SO MUCH TO LEARN!!!  And entry level is where you start applying all the book learning and "practicals" from your university engineering courses.

Also, we vowed NOT to purchase a house until our household income had achieved a certain level and our student loans were paid off.  AND, we would not have a child until we had purchased a house.  This may seem cold to some people, but it's really easy to let life carry you away in the wrong direction.

A good family plan that includes long-term planning is a must. 

Don't feel bad for those who can't find a "decent" job after college, because most don't qualify to enter the corporate world as a highly placed Manager or Director.  They must pay their dues and work their way up.

p.s.  I met a late 20s female who had done nothing but go to school her entire life.  When I learned she was working on a Ph.D., I asked her what her goal was.  She said she'd be getting a job to "direct" research teams in the San Diego area.  My reaction:  Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!  because I had gotten to know her and there was no way in H-E-double tooth picks that she could ever qualify for such a position - Ph.D. or not.  About 4 years later, after she left the organization where I met her, I asked how her directorship position was coming along. Laughingly she said, "Oh, I decided that was going to be way to much work [Yes, I was right!], so I'm writing a book."  Duh!

[cerb]

@LTT1  - thank you for the kind words.  Alas - the beginning salary for a veterinarian is about $60,000, though there is potential for a six-figure income in later years.  That student loan debt is part of the problem.  Veterinarians are business people.  They make money by owning their own business (building, employees, insurance, utilities, expensive medical equipment, medications, etc.).  Young vets have too much debt to open their own business.  Therefore, they get hired to work by a chain, or at an existing clinic where the income is lower.  It takes a while for them to pay off their student loans and save enough money to be in a position to own or be partners in their own clinic, and that's where they make the better income.  

My daughter worked at a clinic for a few years while attending community college, so she knows what she's getting into.  That's another step that I would recommend for college students.  To do some kind of internship or shadowing in job fields they're interested in, to find out if they actually "like" the job.  It's sad to see a young adult go through at least 8 years of college to become a doctor/lawyer/engineer etc., only to find out that they don't like the work.  

[LTT1]

@cerb  I'm so glad that your daughter had a chance to actually experience the day-to-day of a veterinary career!  Since she knows what is entailed, she will be so way ahead of the game.

It is sounding like higher degrees get you in the door, coupled with on-the-job experience!

I suppose there is a story for every student who did/did not attend college.

DD, who I consider a level-headed girl, mother of our two grandchildren, said in a "day-dreamy" voice... oh, yes,  I guess I didn't think of that.  We will need to afford college.

HOW CAN SOMEBODY NOT EVEN THINK OF THIS?  But I digress!  Right now they both have high-paying careers, but no industry or job is sacred right now. LOL

[panda1234]

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@Q2girl wrote:

So what should change?  Should professors get paid less?  Should money that rich donors give to the football teams really be going to students?  Should it be free like it was for my first husband in England?  Should we all pay through our taxes, so that everyone gets to go to college?  Yes it's high, but it was high when I went.  My second husband and I came out with loans and credit card debt.  We worked hard the first couple of years to pay it off.  My issue is that there aren't enough jobs for the students graduating and students also feel they have to go to a top college to get a job and instead get into serious debt. My husband and I went to State colleges and we are doing great in our careers.  

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A top college looks good on paper and might get you in the door. Your work ethic will keep you there....can't get that in a good school.

[NoelSeven]

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@BLH wrote:

Student loan debt is good debt compared to credit card debt.  They say you should never borrow more and you're going to make during your first year of working.  I know students who don't need the money, but use the loan for spring break vacations, cars, nicer apartments, etc.  We paid for our two sons educations.  We worked and saved and lived off of my husband's income and used my income for college.  What I make in a year paid for a year of college.  For the ten years that we had kids in college we didn't go on vacation, didn't do any improvements to our home or spent any money needlessly.  My kids didn't have their own computers, cell phones or cars until they bought them themselves.  We ate "Hamburger Helper" without the hamburger so they could go to college.  HAHA.  Just kidding.  It was a stuggle, but well worth it.

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That wouldn't work in most cases anymore.  Not with the cost of college today.  Sure, maybe for a two year community college where a student can live at home maybe, but not for most colleges.

[NoelSeven]

BTW, personal computers are required for colleges around here.  In fact, they are used in high school, also.  My daughter had to take tests on her computer and submit reports that way.  Almost no paper use.  

Her books in grad school averaged $800 a semester.