Among Friends

[Q4u]

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@Venezia wrote:

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@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

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@Q4u wrote:

I remember when the EU was created.  My (English) Mother and Father were discussing this and I listened intently.  My Father stated that it was a bad idea.  He mentioned that a "one world" won't work in his opinion and that the members/states would never be prosperous and they were also upset that England decided to be part of it as most Britains do NOT consider themselves European. 

Britain will survive very well.....  IMHO.

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@Q4u

So at the risk of sounding sarcastic .... just what do they consider themselves ..... African?    (rolling my eyes) 

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@Tinkrbl44 @Q4u - LOL.  My DH is British, his family are; I lived there for 20 years and have many British friends. 

I'd like to know how this "straw poll" was taken, that says "most Britains" do not consider themselves European?  Yes, they are British.  They are also European.  One has nothing to do with the other.  One is nationality, the other is a geographic distinction.

The EU was set up for a reason.  It is now up to all the countries involved to decide whether it still works for them.  The vote was very close, so it's obvious some are going to be happy with the result, others not.

For the sake of all my friends and family still there, I hope things work out and I will be watching it closely.

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Well first let me premise that whatever perspectives we have on this subject is most likely colored by our political leanings.  No straw poll from me.... here's an interesting look at percentages according to Reddit, source: Eurobarometer 82 (PDF).

39% (roughly a third) see themselves as being European (the lowest group in the EU).

45% (less than half) of Britons feel attached to Europe.

36% (roughly a third) of Britons feel attached to the European Union

50% (half) of Britons feel they're a citizen of the EU (one of the lowest).

As I stated, our view of these things are most likely colored by our political leanings which is also reflected in our families and our firends.  In my case, I never heard of any of my family/friends consider themselves part of Europe.  And I totally believe that your living there and being around your own family and friends... that you heard the opposite.  I also hope and pray that everything will work out very well for the British.... and in my heart I believe it will.

[Q4u]

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@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

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@Q4u wrote:

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@Tinkrbl44 wrote:

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@Q4u wrote:

I remember when the EU was created.  My (English) Mother and Father were discussing this and I listened intently.  My Father stated that it was a bad idea.  He mentioned that a "one world" won't work in his opinion and that the members/states would never be prosperous and they were also upset that England decided to be part of it as most Britains do NOT consider themselves European. 

Britain will survive very well.....  IMHO.

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@Q4u

So at the risk of sounding sarcastic .... just what do they consider themselves ..... African?    (rolling my eyes) 

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Wait.... what????  They are BRITISH.  A separate Sovereignty. They are not European, never have been and even with the inclusion of being in the EU.... they kept their money and did not go to the Euro.....  

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@Q4u

Yes, of course they are British, but they are also part of Europe.   Check out the map.

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You know, I've not been nasty with you regarding this.... of course I'm familiar with the map and stating "Check out the map" implies stupidity....  which is not necessary.  

Because Great Britain is an island... it has not considered itself part of mainland Europe.  My family (and my Mother) did not consider themselves European, neither did their friends.  Some do of course, most do not..... but since their inclusion in the EU, the percentages of those in Britain that do not consider themselves part of Europe is interesting...

Here's a look at percentages according to Reddit, source: Eurobarometer 82 (PDF).

39% (roughly a third) see themselves as being European (the lowest group in the EU).

45% (less than half) of Britons feel attached to Europe.

36% (roughly a third) of Britons feel attached to the European Union

50% (half) of Britons feel they're a citizen of the EU (one of the lowest).

So you can see that Britain's inclusion as "a European country"  isn't as clear cut as you imply simply because of geography.  Just because it's a stone throw to the continent doesn't mean that most Britains see themselves as European .... even when part of the EU.  Even if half the country feels they're a citizen of the EU... roughly only a third see themselves as being European.

[Venezia]

@Q4u - It's not a question of whether they "feel" European or not.  Great Britain is part of the continent of Europe.  Or would you like to suggest we create an 8th continent just for them?  To argue that the British are not Europeans is playing with semantics.

And don't forget, they built the Euro Tunnel, so they are now physically connected, too!

However, enough discussion.  I would hate to think jingoistic attitudes are going to be the rule of the day with the separation.  JMHO.

[Q4u]

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@Venezia wrote:

@Q4u - It's not a question of whether they "feel" European or not.  Great Britain is part of the continent of Europe.  Or would you like to suggest we create an 8th continent just for them?  To argue that the British are not Europeans is playing with semantics.

And don't forget, they built the Euro Tunnel, so they are now physically connected, too!

However, enough discussion.  I would hate to think jingoistic attitudes are going to be the rule of the day with the separation.  JMHO.

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..... Cuba is part of the North American Continent and yet is is not considered part of the United States, so just being part of the Continent is not an automatic inclusion.

Also how a nation's free population "feels" is usually (unless they are under a tyrant's rule) the way a country has historically gone........ so it'll be interesting watching all this going forward.

Great debate, I've really enjoyed it.....  

[ROMARY]

I've been wondering how the Queen and family feel about the situation....

[Tinkrbl44]

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@Venezia wrote:

@Q4u - It's not a question of whether they "feel" European or not.  Great Britain is part of the continent of Europe.  Or would you like to suggest we create an 8th continent just for them?  To argue that the British are not Europeans is playing with semantics.

And don't forget, they built the Euro Tunnel, so they are now physically connected, too!

However, enough discussion.  I would hate to think jingoistic attitudes are going to be the rule of the day with the separation.  JMHO.

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@Venezia   

ITA ....   We are Americans ...  but also part of the North American continent.  Same for Canada.   If some Canadians suddenly took great exception to being referred to as part of North America, most people would think they are, uh, uninformed.   Or crazy.

[Venezia]

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@Q4u wrote:

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@Venezia wrote:

@Q4u - It's not a question of whether they "feel" European or not.  Great Britain is part of the continent of Europe.  Or would you like to suggest we create an 8th continent just for them?  To argue that the British are not Europeans is playing with semantics.

And don't forget, they built the Euro Tunnel, so they are now physically connected, too!

However, enough discussion.  I would hate to think jingoistic attitudes are going to be the rule of the day with the separation.  JMHO.

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..... Cuba is part of the North American Continent and yet is is not considered part of the United States, so just being part of the Continent is not an automatic inclusion.

Also how a nation's free population "feels" is usually (unless they are under a tyrant's rule) the way a country has historically gone........ so it'll be interesting watching all this going forward.

Great debate, I've really enjoyed it.....  

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Cuba is a country.  The United States is a country.  Of course, Cuba is not considered part of the United States.

However, Cuba is part of the North American continent, as is the United States.  You're comparing apples to oranges.

(Your reasoning would be equivalent to saying England is part of France because they are both on the same continent and no one is saying that.)

[ROMARY]

Oh, well....I'm only guessing that some of them feel European, and some don't.  It's really probably up to each individual.  If Canada and US were suddenly joined into a 'CanadaUS' contract/nation/whatever, some of us would consider ourselves Americans, some Canadians, and others 'Canadus'.  (I know, not a great example, but I tried...........) (lol)  .... p.s.  I 'kind of' like the combo-word  'Canadus'.  Rather creative, if I do say so myself....

[Tinkrbl44]

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@Vivian Florimond wrote:

Here's something to ponder. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. Scottish leaders already announced they will have a new vote for secession, which will likely pass. More serious than that, Northern Ireland also voted to remain in the EU. Where will Northern Ireland go? Not to the Republic of Ireland, according to many. Checkpoints will have to return between the Republic and Northern Ireland. Will The Troubles return too?

That's just one of the thorny issues that will have to be dealt with. What will happen to the UK as a financial center of the EU? Will banks relocate, leaving thousands out of work? And then there are the trade agreements with the EU. If the UK doesn't accept the conditions set by the EU, they will be kicked out with nothing. There's already a petition with over a million signatures to have another vote. I don't know if it will get anywhere but I'll bet some will regret their vote soon enough. Sometimes it's better to make decisions with the brain rather than the gut and the heart.

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@Vivian

I was watching this on the news tonight .... they just voted, so why would they need to have another vote?  Because some didn't like the outcome?    Seems a bit silly, IMO.

[Vivian]

Yes, the vote is a done deal. However, that petition now has over 3 million signatures, way more than the amount required to bring a discussion to Parliament. They're calling it Regrexit. Apparently, many people voted as a simple protest against general policies and  admitted afterwards that they had not really looked into the implications of their vote. They were just showing their anger, but at what price? I don't think it can be reversed. The results are in. They'll have to live with the repercussions but so will the rest of the world. Incidentally, ISIS is applauding the results, pointing to Eurooean instability, division, and uncertainty as an advantage for terrorists. Nobody can truly predict all the effects. Time will tell.