Among Friends

[VAbelle]

I had to revisit this thread due to its nature.  After reading the posts given, I was astounded by the worldly views offered.  

What if you're wrong .... are you ready to face an eternity similar to what Dante describes?  Why take a chance .... what do you have to lose?   

A previous poster mentioned the book, "The Case For Christ", by Strobel.   I suggest you read it.  This atheist/agnostic had the same mindset.

[jubilant]

No where did I get the impression that op was even anywhere near forcing this down her fathers throat. She was just listening to something that was on her father's mind and trying to help.  This is about him...not about her (as she made very plain, I thought)  and not about us....it's about what he may or may not want to talk about.  Just because he's 90 doesn't mean his mind isn't working and he can't make decisions for himself.    

[GingerPeach]

@house_cat

If I were you, I'd print out my favorite posts.  Who knows how long this thread will be here? 

(Funny how there is such a marked division between those who read the initial post and responded to that, and those who may or may not have read/understood it and responded in their very own way.)

[LilacTree]

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@chickenbutt wrote:

Wow, LT, you're right about 'hypocrite'.  I usually just skirt it to keep the conversation civil.  But I don't do 'fake'.  I will usually just say that I'm 'non-religious' and leave it at that unless somebody asks for more.

Like I said, I don't like being preached at so it's just a way for me to not take it to the level where somebody feels the need to 'straighten me out' on such matters. 

Good for you.   There is no reason to not be proud of exactly who you are.

Glad you and your two daughters have a good relationship and can still be different.  That is truly wonderful! 

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Thank you, CB, my daughters are fully grown early middle-aged women.  I do not preach to them about anything (although they sometimes try to preach to me, LOL, but never about religion).  They are raising children, they work full time, they support themselves.  We respect each other.

My biggest regret is that I can't do more with them because of my physical limitations, not their personal philosophies. 

I don't like to give advice to OPs, especially about this topic.  All I would say to her is to let her father determine his own journey . . . well, I guess that is advice.

[chickenbutt]

I'm surprised, but glad, to see this thread still.  I figured by the time I got here, this afternoon, it would have either exploded or be gone.

House Cat - I hope you and your dad are doing well.  I do think about you often and send you positive thoughts and good vibes. 

I also have to say thank you to the majority of the posters for treating ALL of us respectfully.  I always expect some kind of ugly fallout in these types of discussions, with people like me, and the few others here, taking a lot of condescension and grief.  So, thank you very much to the majority here who chose not to preach AT the rest of us.   I know the rest mean well.     

[Adelina]

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@Oostende wrote:

I have found Keith Ward's "Why There is Almost Certainly a God: Doubting Dawkins" to be a fine read.

If your father, as an educated man, is versed in a little philosophy and some physics, then he shouldn't have any trouble with the text.

Keith Ward is retired now, but he was the Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Oxford.  His is an extraordinary mind.

For what it's worth, neither science nor religion can decisively claim an answer to the existential meaning of life and death.  That is left up to each of us.

Best of luck.

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_________________________________

He has a newer book out entitled Evidence for God: The case for the existence of a spiritual dimension (2014).  

[dooBdoo]

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house_cat wrote:

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Sunshine Kate wrote:

House_cat, if you don't believe and your dad doesn't believe, why are you even writing about it?

That doesn't make sense to me.  

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Here's why I'm bringing it up.  His death is not imminent, but he is 92 and in poor health. He is blind and cannot walk and a mini-stroke has left him with difficulty speaking.  DH and I do all that we can to keep him content. I supply him with audio books and visit every day.  I walk him to the grocery store and take him to his doctor visits.  I attend all functions at the senior center with him and my mom (who is 90), because they cannot attend alone and I want to provide them with distractions from their aches and pains.

Despite our efforts, he has a lot of time to contemplate the inevitable. He talks to me frequently about his wishes for his burial.  He asked me to get medical POA for the both of them, and I did, because he's terrified that another stroke will leave him unable to express his wishes.  In his own words, he is "ready to go".

Yesterday I was driving him to the doctor's office and the Joel Osteen station was playing on the radio. I listen to him frequently, because I find his sermons to be uplifting, even in a secular sense.  Dad said, "I wish I could believe like he does.  It would be so much easier to face dying if I believed in God."  We've discussed the topic over the years, but it's more relevant at this time in his life.  I wish I could offer him some solace, but I'm not religious either. I do consider myself a spiritual person and I do believe there is more to reality than what we experience on Earth.  I, too, wish I was a believer. I envy those who say, "It's in God's hands", because I'd love to hand God some of my concerns.

I guess I was just asking for other perspectives. The insights that are shared on this forum are priceless, in my opinion.  Thank all of you who responded.  I read through the comments once, quickly, but when I have time later I will read them more intentionally.

I do want to say, though, that those who think it is my goal to convert him to my way of thinking, are missing the point.  Still, I thank you for responding.

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I wanted to repeat your post in hopes everyone will see your intent.  @house_cat, you sound like a loving daughter and my heart goes out to you.  I agree with others who suggested you copy the thread in case it doesn't remain here.

In addition to my suggestion that your father might enjoy listening to books about C.S. Lewis' intellectual journey to faith I wanted to add Dale Carnegie.   His book "How to Stop Worrying and Start Living" doesn't have the greatest title (in my opinion) but it holds a wealth of sound, well-reasoned, applicable advice about letting go of worries and finding a certain level of peace and acceptance.  It's an old book but has proven to be so useful that many of the modern-day self-help gurus use Carnegie's principles today.

It's been interesting to read all the contributions to this thread, and it's always so great when we can see so many views discussed without rancor.

I wish you and your dear father well.  Take care.

[rosi red]

I would bring your dad to the message of the cross. I'm sure he knows who Jesus Christ is. Tell him he came to this world to die for our sins so that we could all have eternal life with him in heaven.

All Jesus wants is for us to accept him as the son of God, repent from all our sins, and ask Him to come into our lives to live in our hearts.

What your dad does after this conversation is his choice.

I will pray that he makes the right one.

[sassenach1]

HouseCat, you have had many responses and I have not read them all, so I don't know if what I will say has been mentioned.  I don't want to address organized religion- this thread should continue,

I firmly believe that no matter the belief, your dad will go back to the loving, amazing spiritual world that he (and all of us) came from prior to birth.  He will be welcomed into God's loving arms. 

This understanding and belief makes all the difference in my life. 

[jaxs mom]

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@house_cat wrote:

I'm sincerely hoping that this thread doesn't go awry.

I'm also hoping that the QVC moderators will see its value.

I don't know where else to bring up this topic, as it's not a good one for the workplace.  I value the opinion of the participants in this forum.

My dad is 92 years old and in ill health.  Yesterday, he said to me that he wishes he could believe in God. He said that it would make him less anxious.  He was raised Catholic, but I've never seen him in church except for funerals and weddings.  My mom was also raised Catholic, but has rarely gone to church and doesn't follow Catholic doctrine.

Dad said that he wishes he could believe, but being the educated person he is, he can't reconcile the science with the spirituality.  I know there are millions of educated people, who are strong believers in God.

Can someone please suggest something I can say to him?  

Thank you in advance for not making your responses judgmental or divisive.  

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I'd ask him if he would like you to arrange for a priest to visit him.