topic Re: Grammatically speaking in Suggestion Box

Grammatically speaking

achat — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 06:45:51 GMT

I often hear hosts and company reps misuse less. Today the company rep for a beauty product said less lines and less wrinkles. Less is used when an item can be measured: less flour, less love, less hate, less orange juice. If something can be counted, but not measured fewer is used rather than less: fewer baked goods, fewer loving people, fewer hateful tweets, fewer oranges. I do believe lines and wrinkles are counted not measured; however, the intensity of lines and wrinkles is measured: fewer lines, less intense lines.

I just want my favorite shopping network to be the best it can be.

Re: Grammatically speaking

Pook — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 09:27:39 GMT

If this were an English professor then maybe it would be an issue but this is a shopping channel so as long as the meaning is clear I cannot see how it really matters!!! It has no effect on the products they sell whatsoever!!!

I.Re: Grammatically speaking

Roscoe the Rascal — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 10:38:15 GMT

I don't really care what they say. They can say this ****** really works and then I would notice. lol

Re: Grammatically speaking

Allieoh — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 10:52:54 GMT

I agree. I wasn't an English major, but the one that gets me is using the word utilize in place of use. It happens at work too. Use and utilize have different meanings, but utilize sounds fancier I guess.

Re: Grammatically speaking

on the bay — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 11:15:24 GMT

I didn't know that.

Whether QVC cares or not, I like learning about things like this, so thanks for pointing it out @achat

and welcome to the boards!

Re: Grammatically speaking

violann — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 11:43:04 GMT

Hi @achat - You and I care about the structure and form of English, but scholars of English DO NOT.

That being the case (and it is) and adding in a great big mess of cyber speech with all of its irritating abbreviations and linguistic shortcuts, and THEN PILING SPELL CHECK on top (its it's its'??),

complaining about HOW people speak if they're AT LEAST COMMUNICATING, or trying to communicate, comes across as archaic, if not outright pedantic.

I used to enjoy speaking "English", but presently I think back to those days with nostalgia, and as with any "evolving" organism, "our" English of the past is almost certainly obsolete.

When I long to visit it, I return to reading newspapers and books written 50-75 years ago. I think the actual bastardization of the language begin a little later than that, perhaps 20-30 years ago, and at first it was merely throwing the baby our with the bath water. Gradually, and probably rightly, it became a socially nuanced construct. That's where we are today.

I'm very old, and I was actually TAUGHT, IN 3rd GRADE no less, that "thou" was an alternate "proper" form of "YOU". Think of it, teaching the complexities of English Grammar to 3rd graders!

Griping about this stuff reveals my age. I'm willing to talk (not "speak") like most Americans and still sound like I'm 30. At least on phone calls.

Re: Grammatically speaking

on the bay — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 11:58:43 GMT

@violann -

Did you mean to say that scholars of English do not care about the structure and form of English?

That doesn't seem to make sense?

Re: Grammatically speaking

banned again — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:08:02 GMT

@on the bay wrote:
Did you mean to say that scholars of English do not care about the structure and form of English?
That doesn't seem to make sense?

I stopped reading it there. Didn't make sense and use of capitalization was rude.

Re: Grammatically speaking

amyb — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 14:56:57 GMT

@on the bay wrote:
I didn't know that.
Whether QVC cares or not, I like learning about things like this, so thanks for pointing it out @achat
and welcome to the boards!

I learned something too; thanks!

I agree with you on the proper use of the English language ...especially if you have a job in tv communications (even selling)...and I'm far from perfect always.

For me it's been two things I keep noticing...the disappearance of adverbs: "It fits perfect" ilo "it fits perfectly."

Also, and I may be behind the times here...but in newer dictionaries, did "nother" become an accepted word? Everyone always says "a whole 'nother" now...instead of either "a whole other" or simply "another."

Those of us that love words, or were English or communications majors, (or are just OCD?)...care more, and I realize it's not the "worst thing going on in the world!"

Perhaps it was instilled in me. I grew up with mom being "grammar police" until she left here at 91 she was still saying, (albeit sweetly) to me..."better than I" when I'd say "me." Lol...was always endearing and I wish she was still here to do it.

All to say...thanks for teaching me this....I never knew, and I love learning these things.

Re: Grammatically speaking

on the bay — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 12:53:11 GMT

@amyb -

haha! My mother was the same (as were my teachers).

To this day she has corrected my sister and me(?) over and over on "lay" and lie"- a chicken "lays" eggs lol!

"You lay something down or on something, to 'place.' vs "I am going to lie down."

Or something like that!😀

I think the "nother" and dropping adverbs just comes from slurring together or talking fast, cutting off vowels.

Also in some parts of the south, the language becomes even more slang

in some parts-"don't want no", "ain't" etc.

And I still think better than me sounds better! I bet some of this becomes generational too. And I mean way back generational. Like we don't say thou and thee anymore.

Found this explanation-your mother would approve

"He is younger than me. He is younger than I. Answer: 'I' is more correct in formal English, but 'me' is acceptable in informal English and is increasingly used in formal English too. 'I' is more 'correct' because you're comparing two subjects." Yeah whatever😅

I know to some this is all absurd but I guess some of us could be considered nerds on words and language! I guess I've always found language and how it changes over years and cultures and different countries and US parts of the country, fascinating!

Re: Grammatically speaking

PamfromCT — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 13:14:15 GMT

There was a time when I did concentrate on perfection in speech and writing. Unfortunately, that desire for perfection left me when I left college for the world I joined. Nowadays I concentrate on what people convey, the meaning of which sometimes confounds me, and makes me so very sad.

Selfishness and loss of character bother me immensely. Poor grammar, not really.

Re: Grammatically speaking

amyb — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 15:03:25 GMT

@on the bay Lol...yep, I can relate on all.

It's somewhat generational...but some things just shouldn't change...because it all gets so sloppy and lazy and dopey sounding, Imho.

I do agree with you on the "I" thing...sometimes it would just sound awkward. But sometimes she was right...haha...she'd say.."you wouldn't say 'me am'?!" Technically, she was correct according to what my teachers had also taught, with that "me am" thing...

I'm always paying attention to on-air personalities, newscasters etc...lots of sloppy use of the language out there now...sometimes just plain grammatically incorrect, and their jobs are in tv communications!

Lol...by now someone's eyes here are crossing for sure...but count me in as one of the "word nerds."🤓

Re: Grammatically speaking

CalminHeart — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 13:28:27 GMT

@achat wrote:
I often hear hosts and company reps misuse less. Today the company rep for a beauty product said less lines and less wrinkles. Less is used when an item can be measured: less flour, less love, less hate, less orange juice. If something can be counted, but not measured fewer is used rather than less: fewer baked goods, fewer loving people, fewer hateful tweets, fewer oranges. I do believe lines and wrinkles are counted not measured; however, the intensity of lines and wrinkles is measured: fewer lines, less intense lines.

I just want my favorite shopping network to be the best it can be.

My dad has PhDs in English and History. I always had him review my papers for grammar, etc, before turning them in.

Dad once said to me.... Not everyone has the same aptitude and same education. Not everyone has perfect grammar. Different parts of the country have their dialects. It's not nice to nitpick at them. Accept people and their grammar as they are.

Re: Grammatically speaking

violann — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 13:31:12 GMT

@on the bay wrote:
@violann -
Did you mean to say that scholars of English do not care about the structure and form of English?
That doesn't seem to make sense?

The study of the structure and form of English language as introduced by the OP is done from a historical, not functional perspective.

The structure of English Grammar as we learned it is no longer formally taught as part of typical secondary school curriculums.

Re: Grammatically speaking

walkingal — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 15:03:33 GMT

@achat I like your post, and thank you for pointing out the grammatical errors. I like to think people would appreciate being corrected so they don't continue making the same mistakes. But thatj's me -- I always enjoyed English in school, including diagraming sentences. The schools I attended put a great deal of emphasis on our English classes. It was challenging and we had a lot of homework, and why would I want to have wasted everything I put into it back then.

Re: Grammatically speaking

depglass — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 15:20:15 GMT

I love these grammatical discussions. I remember when I first joined the board over 10 years ago I pointed out something. The reply was "You're kidding, right?" I didn't know whether the person agreed with me or thought I was wrong. I was so intimidated I didn't dare answer. Well, those days are over. no one has to be afraid to express their opiions, unless they run afoul of the board police, that is.

Re: Grammatically speaking

D Kay — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 15:29:44 GMT

How do you "measure" love and hate? (as stated in the post)

Re: Grammatically speaking

Peaches McPhee — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:07:57 GMT

I had grammar drilled into me in school, so misuse grates on my ears. But, not everyone suffered through grammer drills as a kid, so they probably don't hear it the way I do.

Re: Grammatically speaking

red&curly — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:14:32 GMT

IMO doesn't bother me unless they are mean or cussing at me.

Re: Grammatically speaking

Kachina624 — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 16:44:51 GMT

@achat wrote:
I often hear hosts and company reps misuse less. Today the company rep for a beauty product said less lines and less wrinkles. Less is used when an item can be measured: less flour, less love, less hate, less orange juice. If something can be counted, but not measured fewer is used rather than less: fewer baked goods, fewer loving people, fewer hateful tweets, fewer oranges. I do believe lines and wrinkles are counted not measured; however, the intensity of lines and wrinkles is measured: fewer lines, less intense lines.

I just want my favorite shopping network to be the best it can be.

@achat. How pray tell does one measure an emotion like love or hate?