topic Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow? in Garden

So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Sat, 25 May 2019 17:54:26 GMT

I'm about to find out. Park Seed was having a $1.00 sale on some seeds the other day, so I ordered ten packs mostly for next year. I also just bought a new two cubic foot bag of Miracle Gro potting mix and have lots of empty space now with my plants all moved out, so I decided to pull out my seed bag from the fridge and start some more seeds. (Mostly perennials.) Some of the seeds I'm trying date back to 2000, but most were 2004/2005. Will they grow? I'll find out over the next few days/weeks. I'm expecting a very low germination rate, so I planted them heavily, if they germinate better than expected (unlikely) I'll have to thin them like mad. I ended up starting 24 six packs with rudbeckias (several type), echinaceas (Bravado and unnamed), shasta daisies, verbena bonariensis, oenothera missouriensis (sundrops), and some sunflowers. Worst case scenario is nothing grows and I reuse the potting mix for something else. Best case scenario is I end up with 144 more plants. It took about an hour all total and greatly thinned out my bag of seeds. I can fairly routinely reuse some seeds for five years or more. Dahlberg Daisies being one of those seeds. I'll harvest a pill bottle full of their seeds from my existing plants at the end of the season and use them for several years before harvesting more seeds. Lotus seeds reportedly remain viable for decades. I store my unused seeds in a ziploc bag in the fridge, but fifteen to nineteen years is likely pushing the envelope on how long they can be stored. They looked good anyway. We'll see what happens. By next Saturday there should be something growing if any of the seeds are viable. In two weeks I should know for sure.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

chessylady — Sat, 25 May 2019 18:04:52 GMT

I keep my seeds refrigerated. I have a small garden, two square foot garden boxes. I rely on good germination and use seeds for three years.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

x Hedge — Sat, 25 May 2019 19:00:47 GMT

@gardenman , some varieties are only good for a year or two.

I had some swiss chard and wax bean seeds that were about 5 years past their date. Only about a third sprouted and they weren't vigorous.

I've had four o'clock (mirabilis) seeds that did well after about a dozen years.

But I read about tomato seeds that were hundreds(?)/ thousands(?) of years old that were found to be still viable.

So take heart, you may luck out!

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Sat, 25 May 2019 19:33:27 GMT

Some seeds just don't carry well (salvias being one of them) but most of the time I find I can use seeds for quite a few years. Granted fifteen to nineteen years might be pushing things a bit, but I've only used an hour of time so it's not a big deal. The soil can be reused if the seeds don't germinate. The seeds looked pretty good though, so we'll see what happens. I nearly emptied my old seed storage bag this way though.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

PA Mom-mom — Sun, 26 May 2019 00:22:05 GMT

@gardenman When we built our house, my dad sprinkled Winter Aconite seeds, he had gathered from his house, around our house. They didn't come up for 4 years. The year he died, they started growing and blooming in January! Also, the year we built, my uncle planted some ferns he gathered from our local woods, into the north side of our house. They grew for about 3 years and then disappeared. 20 years later they came back. Crazy!

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Sun, 26 May 2019 11:21:23 GMT

I'd pretty much had to give up serious gardening when my mom broke her humerus and needed shoulder replacement surgery about fifteen years ago. (Which is why so many of my seeds date back that long.) Her dementia became more of an issue then also. Then the job took over after she died and then my broken femur last year. Now, I'm back up and gardening again on a bigger scale than I've been able to do for some time. Revamping the back garden after that much neglect is my new project. If those seeds sprout, it'll be a big step forward. If not, I've got new seeds coming. In a couple of years time I'd like to have it back to how it was at its best. I've got a number of daylilies that have survived along with a mini-rose and some other plants, but many of the other perennials got choked out by the weeds. What little gardening I could squeeze in was devoted to the front of the house, the public side, but the back was my original love. Getting that restored is my new goal. In a few days the first seeds should show signs of life if they're still viable. If not the new seeds should arrive mid-week.

Jim Crockett of Crockett's Victory Garden used to start his perennial seeds in June/July for planting out in the fall, so that's the model I'm using. If and when they sprout, they can grow outside in the sun until big enough to plant in the garden. If they don't sprout, then I've got some new seeds coming and can order more next year.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

tototwo — Sun, 26 May 2019 11:42:19 GMT

I'm convinced marigold seeds are viable foreverrrr...............

Gardeners are gamblers, go for it!

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

mousiegirl — Mon, 27 May 2019 13:56:39 GMT

@gardenman wrote:
I'm about to find out. Park Seed was having a $1.00 sale on some seeds the other day, so I ordered ten packs mostly for next year. I also just bought a new two cubic foot bag of Miracle Gro potting mix and have lots of empty space now with my plants all moved out, so I decided to pull out my seed bag from the fridge and start some more seeds. (Mostly perennials.) Some of the seeds I'm trying date back to 2000, but most were 2004/2005. Will they grow? I'll find out over the next few days/weeks. I'm expecting a very low germination rate, so I planted them heavily, if they germinate better than expected (unlikely) I'll have to thin them like mad. I ended up starting 24 six packs with rudbeckias (several type), echinaceas (Bravado and unnamed), shasta daisies, verbena bonariensis, oenothera missouriensis (sundrops), and some sunflowers. Worst case scenario is nothing grows and I reuse the potting mix for something else. Best case scenario is I end up with 144 more plants. It took about an hour all total and greatly thinned out my bag of seeds. I can fairly routinely reuse some seeds for five years or more. Dahlberg Daisies being one of those seeds. I'll harvest a pill bottle full of their seeds from my existing plants at the end of the season and use them for several years before harvesting more seeds. Lotus seeds reportedly remain viable for decades. I store my unused seeds in a ziploc bag in the fridge, but fifteen to nineteen years is likely pushing the envelope on how long they can be stored. They looked good anyway. We'll see what happens. By next Saturday there should be something growing if any of the seeds are viable. In two weeks I should know for sure.

@gardenman I am still planting beans bought over ten years ago, I will know soon if they are still viable this year.

You must have acres and acres for all of the plants you grow. I have chili pepper seeds, many varieties which I saved from the plants last year, in the frig in tiny bottles, so will be planting some of those soon.

I hope your seeds turn out to be viable, because I have tons I still havn't used, mostly flower seeds, and it will give me hope.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Mon, 27 May 2019 14:52:53 GMT

I wish I had acres and acres, but sadly I don't. Both my front and back yards are about forty feet square. I use a ton of annuals as my planter boxes around the porch each hold about 120 plants in four inch pots, so that's 240 annuals I need just for them. Then I've got eight hanging baskets and four railing planters that eat another sixty or so annuals. My side yard has a four foot deep perennial bed running the length of the house. The back yard has a rear perennial bed that's about twelve feet deep and the two sides leading back are about four foot deep prernnial beds. I have my fountian out front that I typically surround with flowers also that would typically take another sixty or so annuals. I just have a single brugmansia out there this year though.

Here's a photo of my front porch from a couple of years ago.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Mon, 27 May 2019 20:31:09 GMT

Whoo-hoo! Sunflower seeds from 2001 and 2004 are sprouting just three days in at a pretty good rate. That's reason for optimism. There are more than one sprouting in most cells, so they'll need to be thinned. I'll give them a week or so to see which is growing strongest, then whack off the slower growers. So, eighteen and fifteen years isn't too long to hold sunflower seeds in the fridge. Good to know.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

wildcat fan — Mon, 27 May 2019 21:06:29 GMT

@gardenman wrote:
I wish I had acres and acres, but sadly I don't. Both my front and back yards are about forty feet square. I use a ton of annuals as my planter boxes around the porch each hold about 120 plants in four inch pots, so that's 240 annuals I need just for them. Then I've got eight hanging baskets and four railing planters that eat another sixty or so annuals. My side yard has a four foot deep perennial bed running the length of the house. The back yard has a rear perennial bed that's about twelve feet deep and the two sides leading back are about four foot deep prernnial beds. I have my fountian out front that I typically surround with flowers also that would typically take another sixty or so annuals. I just have a single brugmansia out there this year though.

Here's a photo of my front porch from a couple of years ago.

Beautiful!

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

mousiegirl — Tue, 28 May 2019 01:58:12 GMT

@gardenman wrote:
I wish I had acres and acres, but sadly I don't. Both my front and back yards are about forty feet square. I use a ton of annuals as my planter boxes around the porch each hold about 120 plants in four inch pots, so that's 240 annuals I need just for them. Then I've got eight hanging baskets and four railing planters that eat another sixty or so annuals. My side yard has a four foot deep perennial bed running the length of the house. The back yard has a rear perennial bed that's about twelve feet deep and the two sides leading back are about four foot deep prernnial beds. I have my fountian out front that I typically surround with flowers also that would typically take another sixty or so annuals. I just have a single brugmansia out there this year though.

Here's a photo of my front porch from a couple of years ago.

@gardenman WOW, stunning!

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Tue, 28 May 2019 10:12:11 GMT

That photo was taken in September, so the plants were at their peak. It's a good system I've got going. The porch faces pretty much due east and gets early day sunshine. I mostly use rain water supplemented with Miracle-Gro to water the plants.

Back to the seeds, lots of sunflowers are coming up at a very strong rate. Germination is well above 50% for even the sunflower seeds dating back to 2000. A single heliopsis has also germinated already and I believe a rudbeckia is germinating also. Not bad already for seeds planted Saturday afternoon. By this coming Saturday I should know more. Each time I look though, more stuff is springing up. I'm cautiously optimistic I'll end up with lots of plants. Sunflowers are always a favorite of mine. They're such happy looking flowers, and the birds love them. I'm very pleased to see growth from at least one heliopsis 'Summer Sun.' It's a favorite perennial and does well here.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

AuntG — Tue, 28 May 2019 12:47:21 GMT

Even if it is at a lower rate, you are getting them to germinate.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Tue, 28 May 2019 18:51:15 GMT

Lots more seedlings are popping up this afternoon. Nearly all of the sunflowers minus one variety have now sprouted in good numbers. The Oenothera Missouriensis is sprouting quite well. The Echinacea Bravado is sprouting well and the unnamed Echinacea are also starting to sprout. The Verbena Bonariensis are not sprouting just yet, but there's still time. The Nasturtiums are sprouting. All in all it looks like I'll get a lot of plants for essentially no money. With all of June, July, August and September to grow, the plants should do quite well before our first frost in mid-October.

The new seeds that should be here tomorrow include two types of hollyhock (a single flowered and a double flowered) that typically are biennial in habit, so I'll be planting them this year and likely only getting foliage, then a wall of flowers next year. They also reseed generously which can be good or bad depending on one's view. They're great back of the border plants though. A role that will be filled this year by the many sunflowers that have now germinated. I've got more sunflower seeds coming in the new order, but the ones I've planted this year make them unnecessary now, so they'll get saved for next year.

I also ordered Mexico Feather Grass seeds (formerly known as Stipa.) It can be invasive in hotter drier climates but according to several Eastern US university websites isn't a problem in this part of the country. (Bad in California though.) Our native weeds apparently crowd it out before it can become a self-seeded problem child. It should look nice along the front edge of a border though.

I'm very pleasantly surprised at how well those old, old seeds are doing. I thought at fifteen or more years old I might just be wasting my time, but they're doing very, very well. I'll be keeping an eye on the end of season seed sales this year and may grab some more bargain seeds knowing how well they keep longterm now. This is a fun time of year to start seeds as you don't really have to worry about light. They can move to my front porch and eventually the yard and get all the light they need with me doing next to nothing but making sure they don't dry out.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Wed, 29 May 2019 15:27:30 GMT

The UPS Mail Innovations folks are apparently innovating how long it can take a package to travel the last fifteen miles of a trip. My new seeds arrived in Bridgeport, NJ on Sunday morning which is about fifteen miles away. They're still there. Granted, Sunday was Sunday and Monday was Memorial day, but still that gave them Tuesday and now Wednesday to schlepp them the last fifteen miles. It probably shouldn't take that long. They were very quick getting them from Georgia to NJ, but these last fifteen miles are taking forever. Maybe they'll be here tomorrow? Who knows? I think Amazon has spoiled me too much.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Thu, 30 May 2019 13:24:28 GMT

Still more seeds germinating including the last of the sunflowers a variety called Vanilla Ice that's just now starting to grow. Most of the sunflowers had probably an 80% germination rate. Vanilla ice being the one exception, but that may improve over the next few days. The Echinacea seeds are germinating at about the same rate. The Shasta Daisies are just now germinating. All in all, this was a big success.

The folks at UPS Mail innovations and/or the postal service are still holding my new seeds hostage in Bridgeport for day five for some reason. I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe they've gotten a bit side-tracked somewhere. They went for SC to GA to Bridgeport, NJ in about a 24-36 hour period. This last fifteen miles is taking forever though. Granted there was a Sunday and Memorial Day in there also, but I tend to think covering the last fifteen miles shouldn't take five days. We'll see what happens tomorrow and if they're still in Bridgeport, I'll drop UPS a note and ask what the heck is going on.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

gardenman — Thu, 30 May 2019 15:36:35 GMT

Ignore my last rant about Mail Innovations as the seeds came today despite still being listed as being in Bridgeport on the tracking. They just never updated the tracking. I just started six of the double hollyhocks, six of the single hollyhocks, six of the Mexican feather grass, twelve of the tricolor amaranthus (surprisingly small seeds for them.) And two pots of cat grass that I'll be rotating as my cats devour it. The Amaranthus should give me some nice fall color. The hollyhocks will likely only give foliage this year, then explode in flowers next year. I don't really know what to expect from the Mexican feather grass, but Monty Don planted it in one of his gardens this spring in his gardening show on Britbox, so I'm giving it a shot. I've grown hollyhocks here in the past very successfully, but they tend to reseed generously, but if you're going to have a plant reseed generously, hollyhocks aren't a bad one. (Achillea was a bad one for me. It reseeded like crazy and tried to take over the world. I was the better part of five years clearing the last of that.) Now we wait to see how the new seeds grow. Only one seed per cell for these seeds so I'll probably come up a few plants short of the goal. (Except for the cat grass that got sowed heavily.)

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

Carmie — Thu, 30 May 2019 15:52:03 GMT

I have planted some seeds that were really, really old.

I test them first by placing the seeds on a wet paper towel and covering them with another wet paper towel. After a couple of days of keeping the towels moist, but not soaking wet, the good seeds will germinate. I plant them right away and toss the ones that are duds.

That way I won't wast my time or garden space.

Marigold seeds seem to last forever, so I don't test them. I just toss them into the ground and thin them out later when they grow. Same for petunias and zinnias.

Re: So, how old can a seed be and still grow?

mousiegirl — Thu, 30 May 2019 16:53:15 GMT

@gardenman I have many varieties of Achillea, but they are in pots, and you are right, they multiply rapidly, but such beautiful flowers, have so many different colors, and intermingled with other plants, wow.

I have a neverending supply of gophers and moles, so much of what I grow is in pots, and whatever is in the ground, is planted in wire baskets made by DH.

I gave a ton of divisions of so many plants to the UPS guy for his wife's garden, but dream of a plant sale, that would be too much of an endeavor.