topic Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered! in Garden

And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 12:48:16 GMT

Harris Seeds has free shipping this weekend (with the code in an e-mail from them) and they also offer good prices on their seeds, so off went my first (probably last) seed order for the year. This order included 250 Impatiens Super Elfin mixed seeds. I prefer the Accent Impatiens, but those where sold out, so I went with the Super Elfin which are a good substitute.I then went with 50 seed pellets of a blue and white Lobelia. Next came 25 seeds of the Pansy Cool Wave in mixed colors. The pansy seeds will get started as soon as they arrive as the plants are very cold tolerant and will go out in March, which isn't that far away now. Next came 50 seeds of Salvia Red Vista. Never buy more Salvia seeds than you can plant as they don't store well. Most seeds can be kept around for years, but not Salvias. And finally a mix of Thunbergia that I'm planning to plant to cover the railings around my porch. No seed count on those, but judging by the amount per pound, there should be around 200 seeds and all I'll really need are ten to twenty plants. The Thunbergia will get started just before going out as vining plants are a real pain to grow inside. They tend to hold onto anything in reach and separating them to plant them becomes challenging.

I'll also be buying some Marigold seeds locally and starting some Dahlberg Daisies from seeds I'd harvested last year.

The total cost came out to around $21.10 with the free shipping, which was very nice. That's about what I'd pay for two flats of plants if I bought them already grown and it takes a lot more than two flats of plants to fill out my planting needs.

The red Salvias will go towards the back of my planter boxes to give a splash of red and to also feed the hummers. The Lobelia and Dahlberg Daisies will go in front as they tend to cascade down. The Impatiens will go pretty much everywhere along with the Marigolds (likely orange Marigolds as that's about the only color not currently represented.) A couple of hanging baskets will get potted up with the Pansies to give an early splash of color. These are the Cool Wave series Pansies which reportedly trail more than two feet, so they're perfect in baskets and should do well until the really intense heat of July and early August rolls around.

The Pansies will get started first as they'll go out first and aren't especially fast growers. I've got the lights to keep them nice and compact and happy inside. Once February rolls around they can start spending milder days outside also. Right behind those will be the Dahlberg Daises and Lobelia. They tend to take a while to get good size on them. Then the Impatiens and Salvias. Mid-to-late March the Marigolds will get started and then mid-April the Thunbergia. God willing, by the end of April everything can go out and stay out, but by mid-May all danger of frost is truly gone here.

There's nothing quite as nice as sitting inside on a day with snow outside and planning your spring planting. It's even better when you can save money doing it. I used to order seeeds from multiple companies, but these days the shipping costs (often $5.99 or more) have me limiting my options much more than I used to do in the past.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

Sweetbay magnolia — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:11:44 GMT

That is a great list and a well-thought-out plan. Seeds are a bargain.

I just looked at my stash of seed packs. It's down to cherry tomato (super sweet 100), morning glory, and hollyhock. The yard and garden, however, is full of latency, waiting for the right weather - columbine, rudbeckia, oak, elm, maple, juniper, muscari, zinnia. I'm hoping a newly planted female American holly will receive cross-pollination from a known male, across the road. And that the serviceberry, beautyberry, and chokeberry seed freely.

You must have a nice set-up for seed starting inside, @gardenman. I usually direct sow in the garden, or in pots, outside. Ironically enough, this past year I did nothing from seed myself, as I was employed by a garden center. Too busy working, to water my own plants!

I love the black-eyed susan vine, myself. Those "wave" pansies are neat. It seems the colors are yet limited in that series. Salvia is a must!

Hoping my pumpkin rots and sprouts offspring come late Spring.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 13:56:40 GMT

As to seed starting, a few years back I bought a stainless steel shelving unit from BJ's Wholesale Club that's 48" wide by 18" deep and 72" tall. I've got it in a south and west facing corner of the family room with windows on both sides also. There are currently two four tube T-8 fluorescent fixtures each 18" X48" with four 6500 degree kelvin bulbs in them and a few spare bulbs waiting to replace those that dim. It's a very bright corner of my house. When the lights are lit the ground outside the windows even looks like daylight at night. The extra sunlight that comes in helps plants grow also. I tend to keep the lights on from when I wake up (around 5 AM) until nine or so at night. I've currently got a nearly six foot tall Brugmansia still blooming right alongside the plant light stand in another south facing window. I may add an extra fluorescent fixture to the shelving unit this year to give me three rows of lights, but I'll have to wait and see if I need it.

Once we get into March the daytime temps pretty regularly hit the fifties and the Dahlberg Daises, Lobelia, and Pansies can spend many days outside in those temps with no trouble. They even prefer it. The Lobelia and Pansies tend to get a bit sluggish in the hotter temps, but the cool stuff they thrive in. The Dahlberg Daisies just don't care. Hot, cold, in between, they'll flower and be happy.

The Marigolds and Thunbergias grow so fast that I can hold off a good bit on getting them started. The Pansies should be out full time by the time it rolls around for those guys to get started. With a little juggling of plants here and there, I can generally keep a few hundred plants happy and growing well with this setup.

I have lots of old six packs from plants I've bought in the past that I reuse for the seedlings, so they don't take up a lot of space. An 18" by 48" shelf can hold a lot of those little six packs. The six packs I use are 5" by 4" so each six pack takes up 20 sq inches of space. The 18" X48" shelf is 864 in sq, so it'll hold around 43 six packs each holding six plants or around 250 plants per shelf and with two shelves that gives me around 500 plant capapcity right now. If I add another row of lights, that'll bump the capacity up to around 750 which is likely more than even I need.

With rotating the Lobelia (50 seeds), Pansies (25 seeds), and Dahlberg Daisies (50 seeds) outside as the weather warms, it frees up a lot of space for the rest of the plants. When the plants are ready to be rotated outside they get transplanted into larger flats that hold 32 plants each. They'll stay in those until it's time for them to be planted for real in late April or early/mid-May. The larger flats give them a bit more room to grow and are more forgiving when it comes to drying out on a sunny and windy day. Those little six packs dry out fast outdoors given the chance.

I love the red salvias, but finding them in retail (at least locally) has become nearly impossible and when you do, they're often quite tall and spindly. They fill out pretty quickly when planted, but when you buy them they look pretty grisly. If I grow them myself, I end up with beautiful little plants.

Seeds are truly a bargain if you've got the right equipment on hand. I've been doing this for decades (literally) so I'm well prepared for it. When I have to buy plants I cringe at the price difference. My most expensive plant will be the Pansies and they'll be a tick over a quarter each to grow. If you buy them in a store come March, you'll typically pay around $3 each for them.

I don't even use seed starting mix to fill the containers. I just use a normal potting mix for the bottom three quarters of the container and seed starter mix on the very top. You get the benefit of the seed starter mix where the seed is starting without the cost of using that exclusively. The plants even seem to prefer that approach.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:01:03 GMT

I just got the order confirmation and I saved $6.95 on the shipping on that order. The S&H for seed orders has gotten crazy in the last ten years or so. It used to be like $.99 and I'd order from a dozen catalogs. At prices like $6.95 S&H, forget it! What's really crazy is when you get the seeds and look at the postmark, they'll have cost like $0.65 to ship.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

deeva — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 14:45:43 GMT

My veggie garden is really producing now. I’m harvesting cherry tomatoes daily. I planted lettuce and garlic about three weeks ago. The lettuce should be ready in about ten days.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

Lilysmom — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:45:53 GMT

@gardenman, aaaaaaah! Love that you are thinking of Spring already. We had our first snow today. I just posted some photos. In three more months, I will have Spring fever I hope. very gorgeous late Fall here. I was raking oak leVes last week!

Merry Christmas to you and your family!!! LM

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:56:44 GMT

@Lilysmom.

We're already on our second snow here. We got about two to three inches yesterday. I'm not a winter person. I like temps between say 65 and 85, and that's not our winters unfortunately. I cheat a bit. I've got a greenhouse type cover over my garden pond and on a sunny January day I'll sneak out and open that up and breathe in that warm humid air, while the goldfish beg for food. I typically can carry over water hyacinths all winter in the pond. Inside I have a big old Jasmine that pretty much flowers year round. I kept that red and white geranium I bought last year and it's still flowering. I've got a few crossandra plants that flower most of the year. I've got some Impatien cuttings from last year that are under the lights and flowering away. I keep a little summer going all year round.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

KitTkat — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 04:32:42 GMT

Awesome! I love to see someone that buys their seeds early like me, although you have me beat. I try to wait until the first week of January. I keep all if my leftover seeds in the fridge and then sort through them as I look through the catalogues. I always buy more than I need. I have a small greenhouse, but wish it was 2 or 3 times bigger, LOL! because I'd fill it easily!

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 12:56:29 GMT

@KitTkat wrote:
Awesome! I love to see someone that buys their seeds early like me, although you have me beat. I try to wait until the first week of January. I keep all if my leftover seeds in the fridge and then sort through them as I look through the catalogues. I always buy more than I need. I have a small greenhouse, but wish it was 2 or 3 times bigger, LOL! because I'd fill it easily!

I normally wait a bit later, but that free shipping got my attention. There are some seeds that I like to start early, so this worked out well. The Pansy seeds are already planted and under my plant lights. They take 9-16 weeks indoors before they're ready for the outside world, so getting them started now puts them at the end of February for the nine week timeline or the first week of April on the 16 week timeline. I'd like to have them out from around Mid-March on, so now's a good time to get them started.

I also have a Ziploc bag of leftover seeds in my fridge and try to buy extra each year to carry over. The one exception are the salvia seeds. They just don't carry over well. I've used ten and fifteen year old seeds and gotten decent germination from them in the past, so I never throw away extra seeds. Instead of one seed per cell, I might use three or four of older seeds, but they generally do better than you'd imagine.

I get really ticked off at the shipping and handling costs for seed orders these days. If I'd had to pay the S&H from Harris seeds it would have been $6.95. That's a bit absurd. Park Seeds has a special on their shipping for "just $2.99" with a special code. Seed shipping used to be like $.99 if they charged anything at all. More often than not most of the weight of the package is the inserts and flyers they include. Now, if you're ordering enough beans, corn, or peas to plant long, long rows and the seeds weigh a few pounds, I can understand the higher shipping costs, but my seed orders are typically all flower seeds and very, very light (in terms of weight anyway) and paying $6.95 to ship a package that costs them $.65 in postage to ship is a bit absurd to me.

I'd like to see the seed companies figure out a better way to calculate their shipping costs. I typically buy all flower seeds and a really big order might weigh two ounces in total. This order was 1.25 ounces. I shouldn't have to pay $6.95 (or more) to have them mail me something that weighs less than two ounces.

Because of the shipping costs I typically try to pick up seeds in local retailers, but the selection is pretty limited. If I ever start a retail garden center (highly unlikely at this age, but who knows) I'd offer to let my customers combine their seed orders with mine and even offer a plant starting service for them where they pay for the seeds and I'd promise them a certain number of plants at a certain price. With a large enough customer base, that could be very profitable for the garden center. If you have fifty customers who all want a certain plant, you can collect their seed money for fifty individual seed packets, but just order the seeds in bulk. The difference in price per seed when bought in large quantities can be quite large. Charge them the cost of the seed packets and then say $.25 per plant ($1.50 for a six pack) and you could make a decent profit. Leftover seeds could be planted to make plants for your other retail customers at little cost to the garden center. (Just the labor, soil and the six packs, plus the greenhouse operating costs.)

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

KitTkat — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 18:41:20 GMT

I agree that the shipping costs need to be recalculated. They need to do it by weight, not how much they cost. I buy flowers and veggies and often wait for codes or coupons for free shipping. Burpee is one of the most expensive for seed prices, so I really try to cut the cost of shipping on that order. I haven't received most of my catalogues yet, I think I've only got HPS, Burpee, totally tomatoes and Baker seeds and a couple that I never order from. Still waiting on park, Harris, territorial, and some others that will probably come this week. By the way, i love pansies and violas too, but i dont usually start mine yet. I wait for my plant date to be in Late April to May.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Wed, 27 Dec 2017 23:10:55 GMT

The first four pansy seedlings have emerged! There should be another 23 coming behind them. Spring is coming!

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

KitTkat — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 05:10:45 GMT

@gardenman wrote:
The first four pansy seedlings have emerged! There should be another 23 coming behind them. Spring is coming!

@gardenman

I just love to watch seedlings pop up through the soil. I find myself checking multiple times a day once I seed in anticipation. Thanks for the pic, it makes me all the more excited to soon begin another fun season of planting. Forgive me if you mentioned it in another post, but if I may ask, what varieties of pansies are you growing?

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 12:28:53 GMT

@KitTkat wrote:
@gardenman wrote:
The first four pansy seedlings have emerged! There should be another 23 coming behind them. Spring is coming!
@gardenman
I just love to watch seedlings pop up through the soil. I find myself checking multiple times a day once I seed in anticipation. Thanks for the pic, it makes me all the more excited to soon begin another fun season of planting. Forgive me if you mentioned it in another post, but if I may ask, what varieties of pansies are you growing?

These are the Cool Wave series, mixed colors. They trail like the Wave series of petunias getting two to three feet long and reportedly covered in flowers. (At least until the higher heat hits them.) And like you, I check on them constantly. I'm up to twenty of the 27 seeds up and growing as of this morning. If you Google "Cool Wave Pansies" you can read more about them. They're pretty tough, and neat little plants.

I like to start a whole flat of seedlings at one time, so after I'd filled the 27 cells with the Cool Wave Pansies, I had 45 empty cells. Those all got a sprinkling of my saved Dahlberg Daisy seeds. The Dahlberg Daisy (thymophyla tenuifolia) is a neat little plant that flowers nonstop all season. It's got this very finely cut foliage and lovely little yellow flowers along with a scented foliage that people either love or hate. I've never seen it in any local garden center, but it's a very good little plant for me. It grows true from saved seed and the seeds are a snap to harvest. It grows slowly from seed however. This is a bit early for me to be starting it, but it's also very cold tolerant, so it can start spending days outside come March with no trouble, freeing up space under the lights for the later sown plants.

Next I'll be starting up the lobelia seeds, which are also slow growing, but also cold tolerant. That'll probably take place next week or by mid-January anyway. Alll three of those plants, the lobelia, dahlberg daisy and pansy, can take quite cool weather, so they can go out long before it's safe to put out the more delicate plants.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

Lilysmom — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:20:21 GMT

@gardenman, I love seeing this. Keep us posted on your progress. Makes me believe Spring is not that far off! LM

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 15:29:45 GMT

@Lilysmom

Spring's not that far off. Day's are already getting longer again. Around January 21st our temperatures will have bottomed out and our average temp will start to rise until around July 21st. By early February my first daffodils will be poking up through the ground. By early March the daffodils and other winter hardy bulbs will be flowering. Around the middle of March I have to start mowing the grass. Last year I went from shoveling snow one week to mowing the grass the next week. In April things really take off, then in May all danger of frost is gone. Spring's not that far away. We'll start getting spring-like days in February.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

Lilysmom — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:35:13 GMT

@gardenman, good Lord, in Feb we will probably be under several feet of snow. For that, you have my envy! LM

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:54:33 GMT

@Lilysmom

February is our snowiest month, but you do typically get a few days where the temps rise into the fifties, and if you're lucky, the sixties, giving you a hint of spring. On rare occasions you'll even hit seventy. The middle of March is the time of the year here when it's like someone flips a switch and you go from winter to spring. Early March you're still getting snow, then the snow pretty much stops and everything starts to take off and grow like mad.

Last year we got a dusting of snow on March 13th then on the nineteenth I was out mowing the grass for the first time. It's a fast transition here from winter to spring.

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

KitTkat — Fri, 29 Dec 2017 21:55:08 GMT

@gardenman

I've planted trailing pansies and violas before, I think they were the cool wave series of pansies, can't remember what the violas were called. I had moderate success with them, but now they are available at my local floral shop, so I just buy them there now. I usually take seeds from my pansies and plant them the next year, but this last summer we had a bad drought so I didn't get as many collected. Soon I'll be ordering seeds, and the next step planting them. Hooray!

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

Lilysmom — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:35:59 GMT

@KitTkat, you just gave me an idea. I think I will try clematis around the stumps. That area will now get full sun!

Sorry to go OT.

@gardenman, pls post pics as your flowers grow. Love seeing them! LM

Re: And my first seeds of the year are ordered!

gardenman — Sat, 30 Dec 2017 13:05:26 GMT

@Lilysmom wrote:
@KitTkat, you just gave me an idea. I think I will try clematis around the stumps. That area will now get full sun!

Sorry to go OT.

@gardenman, pls post pics as your flowers grow. Love seeing them! LM

I'll try to remember to post weekly updates on the flower seedlings. They really do give you hope that spring is coming, which is nice on a day like today when the temps are in the teens and it's snowing outside.