topic Re: Do things ever change, really? in Among Friends

Do things ever change, really?

Suzeecat — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:10:47 GMT

I'm in my late 60s now and back when I was in my 20s I remember the topic coming up about how women make so much less than men for equal responsibility work. There was a movement for a while about changing that. There was even an expensive "study" launched where I worked (State government). It felt optimistic that things could improve, but alas, they never did. Women have more access to higher education and higher level job opportunities, but it still feels like for the most part, are considered "less than" or "token" representatives.

It seems more acceptable for men to not color their gray hairs - they are "distinguished". I just watched Geena Davis' documentary "This Changes Everything" about how little representation women have in the entertainment industry, which was eye opening and extremely frustrating. Or is progress just very, very slow???

From my perspective, after close to 50 years of adulthood, women still have so much catching up to do. Will it ever happen? I suppose people of different races feel the same. It seems that the ones with the power have no intention of giving it up.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

SilleeMee — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 22:30:58 GMT

As long as bigotry is around things will remain the same. People don't change, only the time does.

ETA-

I'm a minority woman. I've had my share of things not equal in my world. My mother had a much more difficult time with her struggles for equality. She was an immigrant who spoke English with a heavy accent. People treated her like she was ignorant. I resented that terribly and I still have negative things to say about it to this day.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Carmie — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:35:40 GMT

Where I worked, there were many women in management positions.

Woman gave the few males who worked in my department better raises and they also gave more money to single women because married women had a husband who was supplying a second income.

There was no union and nothing could be done about it. If you made waves, you'd be gone.

I agree that women have a ways to go, but they contribute to the problem as well.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

gizmogal — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 21:43:26 GMT

Not much has changed in the way of fair pay trends.

Here is a cogent article with commentary on the wage gap between women workers and men in the United States.

Interesting statistics are presented very clearly and equivalents are drawn as to how women are affected in the workplace by lack of opportunities men frequently are not denied.

The article was published in October 2022 and cites statistics and studies as recently as 2021.

https://www.nationalpartnership.org/our-work/resources/economic-justice/fair-pay/americas-women-and-the-wage-gap.pdf

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Scooby Doo — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 22:12:42 GMT

From my perspective things have changed a lot. Back in the 70s women couldn't finance a house or get a credit card. I was refused financing everywhere because I was a single mother. I couldn't buy a new car for that reason. I was told to find an old car and they would finance that. Even landlords wouldn't rent to single women. The credit union would loan all the money their father wanted, keeping him broke so he couldn't pay child support. But me......no. In 1980 I was finally able to buy a house but still had a hard time buying a car.

But now I own a house, two vehicles, and can get all the credit cards I want.

Where I worked just a many women as men held higher positions.

I've lived long enough to see many changes.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

deeva — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 22:31:39 GMT

I remember trying to get a credit card in my own name. The store wanted my husband to co sign for me. I refused and finally got one in my name only.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Roscoe the Rascal — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 22:36:25 GMT

Me too. I stood strong and never gave up. I have excellent credit to this day.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Carmie — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:14:23 GMT

I had no problem getting credit in the 70's in my name, but when I was done having children and wanted a tubal, the doctor insisted my husband needed to sign off.

I was pretty PO'd.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Sooner — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 22:54:04 GMT

When? When women quit back-biting in the work place (I've seen more women after other women than men where I worked 40 years). When women stop using s ex to get ahead, and when they don't expect to be promoted because they are women and blaming men.

From what I have seen and read in books about famous women, it's absolutely as much or more other women.

Before you jump on me that is MY experience.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Foxxee — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 01:10:03 GMT

Currently, I think women have the edge, given more than men.

Affirmative Action protects all women and non-whites. It discriminates against white males. As a result, they have a much more difficult time getting employment and into college. There are more women in college than men. It's not from lack of trying.

Feminism continues to push for more, but as I see it they are getting more than men. It appears they don't want equal opportunity, they want superiority.

Companies have been looking for women to hire...they announce gender, as well as other quotas. Merit not necessary.

A lot has changed over the years. Up until the 70's, women needed a male signature to be admitted to a hospital...get a loan for an apartment, house, car. No credit cards until then.

I worked in a male dominated profession, was promoted several times, and made as much money as the men. I was treated the same as men. I worked hard, put in many extra hours.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Meowingkitty — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 23:32:29 GMT

@Carmie wrote:
I had no problem getting credit in the 70's in my name, but when I was done having children and wanted a lubal, the doctor insisted my husband needed to sign off.

I was pretty PO'd.

I had no problem getting credit cards in the late 70's. As for when I had my tubes tied in 1992 I was 35 no kids and my doctor did it with hesitation. Husband didn't have to sign anything. My choice. He would have signed it anyway if need be but it wasn't an issue.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

PhilaLady1 — Wed, 25 Jan 2023 23:36:50 GMT

There are many replies that I can think of to this subject because in my opinion, there are many aspects to this. So I will pick one and comment on something that was being discussed by young women that I overheard at my office about 5 or so years ago. Somehow the term Feminism, of which we from a certain generation, fought so hard for, was looked down upon by these professional women. I am not sure but it seemed that the meaning of feminism changed and a feminist was viewed with disdain. I think they thought that the belief is that if you are a feminist, you want to take over men, a kind of man-hater. The traditional meaning of equality got lost. Today is not perfect, but it's a lot better than back in the day. Maybe this is taken for granted by people born after the ground work was done and doors beginning to open in the 70's.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Goldengate8361 — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 01:18:45 GMT

Make no mistake about it: Women took a GIANT step backwards from a recent Supreme Court ruling. I'm honestly truly glad that I came of age during a different era where I had the most basic rights over my own body. I mean that.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Desertdi — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 01:33:20 GMT

Nothing will change...until women stop criticizing OTHER WOMEN

Re: Do things ever change, really?

Barbara-QVC — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 01:54:15 GMT

This post has been removed by QVC because it is going off topic

Re: Do things ever change, really?

grandma r — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:07:04 GMT

Some things have changed since the '40s and '50s, yet, other things have gone backwards. Women are seen as individuals today in some circumstances; in other circumstances, we aren't allowed to make our own decisions. There are still workplaces that pay men far more than women doing the same jobs. Unions have helped with that, but, there are still places who forbid unionizing.

Our clothing has drastically changed over the years. Back in the '50s and even early '60s a woman was always dressed to go out, even grocery shopping. Hats and gloves were the norm.

Imo women will never be seen as truly equal to men as long as the rules are made by older men. And, a lot has to do with where these men live. Some areas of our country still view women as property. Sadly, these are facts and not political.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

ThinkingOutLoud — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:28:17 GMT

Just fyi -

A victim mentality is always a weak position.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

skatting44 — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 04:42:25 GMT

Agree that there have been many positive gains for women in the workplace .

What I see are steps backwards is the crazy " birthing people " attitude and total disrespect of women . Nasty song lyrics of raping women and using them . Women performers acting like dogs in heat .

Also to what's happening now a days to destroy women's sports .

Back in day 50+ yrs ago it was not easy for teens and women to get birthcontrol pills or other forms of birth control . Now it is very easy to get birth control pills.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

chrystaltree — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 05:34:23 GMT

Part of the discrepancy in pay between men and women is that women usually take a chunk of time off to raise children. If (like me) you stay home with the kids for 8 years and then return to work; you have to start your career over again and you never catch up to your male peers. It's not that they get bigger raises. And some women take on jobs that are less demanding and therefore pay less when their kids are young. They never catch up. As long as women get pregnant and are the princess caregivers, I don't think things will change. Many women are opting to remain childless so perhaps the salary discrepancy will shrink over time. As for aging. Yes indeed, there's a difference. A woman with gray hair is old while a man with gray hair is distinguished. I retired last year and I'm free to let my hair go gray. I would NEVER have done that while I was working because I didn't want to be seen as old by my superiors who were 40ish vs my 60ish. I opted for an "ageless" look and was careful not to date myself. A friend who did the same thing phrased it as "no one wants their mother on their team". Men can get gray, bald, wrinkly and they don't lose relevance in the workplace. I think you can only focus on YOURSELF and the things you can control and the skills and talent you bring to the table.

Re: Do things ever change, really?

hckynutjohn — Thu, 26 Jan 2023 17:54:18 GMT

I am 83 years old. My mother was an immigrant from Italy, who spoke english. I have told my story so many times I will pass, on most of it this time.

My mother raised us 4 kids by herself. She worked 6 days, 2 of which were and extra 3.5 hours, in a department store that was open late on Monday and Thursday.

If she made more than $23 per week? We would have booted out of our Public Housing Projects Home.

I had 3 older sisters. One married at 17 and was married for 62 years before her husband died. She worked for our Public School System and her income was more than mine working at a manufacturing plant.

Both of my other sisters went to college, 1 got her degree in Business and was in real estate for over 40 years. She has lived on a 10 acre ranch with her horses for decades.

Were their "times" the same as my mother's? Have I seen a change in times over my long lived years? Read the above and that should answer your question. You see a world that has stood still, I have lived in, and seen a much different one than you.

The rest of your post borders on the Political in nature, so I will leave that alone, for now.

By the by! When my wife retired after working 11 years for her company! Her income was over double what I was making from my company after 33 years.

hckynut(john)🥅🏒 🇺🇸