topic Attention @Anonymous032819 in Among Friends

Attention @Anonymous032819

Sheila P-Burg — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 18:34:06 GMT

I said in a post I would not respond any more on this topic but you had an "issue" with me wanting to hear both sides and asked "what reason could he possibly have to justify laying a hand ..... ". You have been courteous and fair in your responses to my posts and I did not feel right not at least trying to explain my reasoning for me stance.

I gave a brief explanation in Post 29 of that thread.

I worked for a law firm that represented a gentlemen that had been accused by his ex-fiance of domestic abuse. The evidence appeared to justify her accusations but certain comments/evidence became questable. Before he could go to trial to prove his innocence his supposed friends distanced themselves, his employer terminated him, he lost everything he felt mattered to him.

He was judged and found guilty based on what they heard.

The gentleman lost the strength and will power to face the battle that would be needed to continue his fight to prove his innocence so he decided he could not handle any more of what life was throwing at him and he chose what he felt was the only option he had. I will not go into further detail about this.

He was proven innocent. The evidence was proven to be self-inflicted. The reason for the accusation proven. The gentleman had an affair while engaged and when the ex-fiance discovered the affair broke off the engagement. Hurting she wanted her revenge so she accused.

I learned a lot from that case. I never take sides without hearing both sides, I "dissect" certain things that do not make sense, and I check into what evidence has been submitted and professionally documented.

I find not harm in giving helpful advise or comforting and giving support to someone that says they are in an abusive relationship. My problem is when someone automatically assumes the person accused is guilty based on what is written or said. That is what the police are for and the court system.

I hope this explains my reasoning.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Anonymous032819 — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 19:19:06 GMT

@Sheila P-Burg wrote:

I said in a post I would not respond any more on this topic but you had an "issue" with me wanting to hear both sides and asked "what reason could he possibly have to justify laying a hand ..... ". You have been courteous and fair in your responses to my posts and I did not feel right not at least trying to explain my reasoning for me stance.

I gave a brief explanation in Post 29 of that thread.

I worked for a law firm that represented a gentlemen that had been accused by his ex-fiance of domestic abuse. The evidence appeared to justify her accusations but certain comments/evidence became questable. Before he could go to trial to prove his innocence his supposed friends distanced themselves, his employer terminated him, he lost everything he felt mattered to him.

He was judged and found guilty based on what they heard.

The gentleman lost the strength and will power to face the battle that would be needed to continue his fight to prove his innocence so he decided he could not handle any more of what life was throwing at him and he chose what he felt was the only option he had. I will not go into further detail about this.

He was proven innocent. The evidence was proven to be self-inflicted. The reason for the accusation proven. The gentleman had an affair while engaged and when the ex-fiance discovered the affair broke off the engagement. Hurting she wanted her revenge so she accused.

I learned a lot from that case. I never take sides without hearing both sides, I "dissect" certain things that do not make sense, and I check into what evidence has been submitted and professionally documented.

I find not harm in giving helpful advise or comforting and giving support to someone that says they are in an abusive relationship. My problem is when someone automatically assumes the person accused is guilty based on what is written or said. That is what the police are for and the court system.

I hope this explains my reasoning.

@Sheila P-Burg

Thank-you for taking the time to explain.

I understand better now of where you are coming from.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

RetRN — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 19:44:55 GMT

@Sheila P-Burg , I witnessed the same thing once in my career. It was a real eye opener for me. I try not to assume much anymore, we really never know.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Swedishmiss — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 21:40:08 GMT

A cliche, but true - There are always two sides to every story.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

mspatmac — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:12:55 GMT

Well put @Sheila P-Burg . There are always 2 sides and it is difficult enough when you are face to face with a person but who really knows when it's anonymous posters. (My comments are in general, not assuming anything with recent posts) I am a trusting person and tend to believe, however so many have been deceived on line, like catfished and scammed out of monies and kids being taken advantage of. It's a scary place the Internet, and it pays to be cautious.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

AuntG — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:20:14 GMT

I'm hearting ❤ away even though I don't what this is in reference to. Basically, I have seen such good liars that they can make the innocent look guilty. Think of parents who purposely harm their children - it's called something (which I can't spell) "by proxy"

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

suzyQ3 — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:27:11 GMT

@AuntG wrote:
I'm hearting ❤ away even though I don't what this is in reference to. Basically, I have seen such good liars that they can make the innocent look guilty. Think of parents who purposely harm their children - it's called something (which I can't spell) "by proxy"

@AuntG, are you by any chance referring to Munchausen by proxy, now apparently labeled as factitious disorder imposed on another (FDIA)?

If so, I don't think that is what goes on sometimes online when people are caught making up elaborate stories. Usually, it's a desperate call for attention, although it can also be part of a scam (catfishing).

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

FrostyBabe1 — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:45:50 GMT

@Swedishmiss wrote:
A cliche, but true - There are always two sides to every story.

I've always felt that there are three sides. Side A, Side B, and somewhere in between is a blend of some sort of the two that makes Side C.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

suzyQ3 — Fri, 26 Jun 2020 22:50:04 GMT

@FrostyBabe1 wrote:
@Swedishmiss wrote:
A cliche, but true - There are always two sides to every story.
I've always felt that there are three sides. Side A, Side B, and somewhere in between is a blend of some sort of the two that makes Side C.

@FrostyBabe1 @Swedishmiss

The Rashomon effect:

Rashomon

(also Rashoman)

noun

Attributive Designating something resembling or suggestive of the film Rashomon, especially in being characterized by multiple conflicting or differing versions, perspectives, or interpretations.

Origin

1960s; earliest use found in American Journal of Sociology. From Rashomon (Japanese Rashōmon), the title of a 1950 film directed by Akira Kurosawa, in which several contradictory accounts are presented of the events surrounding a death from Rashōmon, the name of a historical gate (now destroyed) in Kyoto, Japan, under the ruins of which the film is set; the film was based on two short stories by Ryunosuke Akutagawa.

Pronunciation

Rashomon/ˈraʃəmɒn/ /raˈʃəʊmɒn/

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

qvcaddition — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 05:28:58 GMT

It happen to me years ago on a job where someone was very jealous of the way I looked, and dressed and being very smart was climbing up the ladder working hard. She tried to damage my reputation and went so far as to say I had the disease going around in the 80,s.

I was well liked in the company and excellent job reviews and raises.

I had helped other employees at and outside the job.

the employees didn,t want to cross this women, so they turned their back on me and no one would come near me or speak to me. Even the person I helped for her not to get fired.

to make this shorter, I had to not go into work, get a Dr. and therapist and sue the company and this lady. Took two years, but I had so much documentation, I won.

after all this, and believe me, I went through hell, I get a phone call from another lady employee, who wanted to know how to go about getting an attorney because she now has an issue. I told her, WHAT NERVE TO CALL ME WHEN YOU WOULD NOT SPEAK TO ME WHEN I WAS GOING THROUGH IT, then hung up.

I never trusted anyone on a job again. All the hard work and great reviews and help meant nothing. They paid in the end because of all my proof.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

CalminHeart — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 11:36:27 GMT

I sure don't like innocent people being accused of anything.

Being a victim of domestic abuse and rape and working with survivors, my first instinct is to believe the victim. Over the decades, I've found that 99.9% are true.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Sheila P-Burg — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:46:31 GMT

@CalminHeart ...... The numbers may be low for those falsely accused (though I don't believe as low as you predict) it is still

important that people are aware that those rare instances happen.

I sympathize with the anguish you suffered from in your life but your comment only justified my strong believe in hearing both sides. Because of your situation it is understandable why you would automatically feel and side with another victim. However, that does not make it right.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Swedishmiss — Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:57:08 GMT

@CalminHeart
Understand your passion, but your statistics of 99.9% are simply not true. Unfortunately, some people do lie about abuse, which makes it all the harder for real victims.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

CalminHeart — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 11:03:35 GMT

@Swedishmiss wrote:
@CalminHeart
Understand your passion, but your statistics of 99.9% are simply not true. Unfortunately, some people do lie about abuse, which makes it all the harder for real victims.

My personal experience is 99.9%. I didn't say 100% because one victim didn't fully make sense but I still treated her as if the abuse was real.

I did a little research and stats show that 2% or more are false. The question in everything I read is that people can't define "false" allegation. Is it the victim afraid and bails out the abuser? Is it a revised story of what happened because the victim 'loves' the abuser? Does the victim need the abuser for financial reasons? There are a million reasons victims can give to get their abusers off.

I would rather believe all women and take a hit for believing the occasional false allegation than to not believe a woman who was abused.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

CalminHeart — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 11:05:34 GMT

@Sheila P-Burg wrote:

@CalminHeart ...... The numbers may be low for those falsely accused (though I don't believe as low as you predict) it is still
important that people are aware that those rare instances happen.

I sympathize with the anguish you suffered from in your life but your comment only justified my strong believe in hearing both sides. Because of your situation it is understandable why you would automatically feel and side with another victim. However, that does not make it right.

It doesn't make it wrong either.

Like I told someone else, I'd rather believe all women and take an occasional hit for believing a false allegation than not believe even one women whose abuse was real.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Marp — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 13:50:35 GMT

@CalminHeart wrote:
@Sheila P-Burg wrote:

@CalminHeart ...... The numbers may be low for those falsely accused (though I don't believe as low as you predict) it is still
important that people are aware that those rare instances happen.

I sympathize with the anguish you suffered from in your life but your comment only justified my strong believe in hearing both sides. Because of your situation it is understandable why you would automatically feel and side with another victim. However, that does not make it right.

It doesn't make it wrong either.

Like I told someone else, I'd rather believe all women and take an occasional hit for believing a false allegation than not believe even one women whose abuse was real.

@CalminHeart, YOU are not the one that would "take an occasional hit" it is the one against whom the false allegation is made that takes the hit.

The reasonable approach is to listen, empathize, console, provide whatever support you can to the claimant, proceed as if the claim is factual while deeply investigating the allegations before substantiating the claim.

Anything less is doing a disservice to the alleged abuser, the client and the community. An innocent man or women wrongly accused can suffer the consequences of a false allegation in life long devastating ways, as well as, quite often, their family.

Re: Attention @Anonymous032819

Sheila P-Burg — Sun, 28 Jun 2020 14:54:53 GMT

@CalminHeart ..... I understand your reason and your compassion for being an advocate against domestic abuse.

I have seen cases of both those that were abused and those that were wrongly accused.

I sympathize with those abused. I also sympathize with those wrongly accused. The damage to the person in either case is irreversible.

Having not been in your situation and having seen what happens to those wrongly accused I am able to step back and calmly see and hear what needs to be seen and heard.

Thankfully that is why juries are chosen. So that they can be open minded, listen, see and hear the facts and hopefully make the right decision.

Sadly once we are affected by something that leaves an everlasting memory or pain with us it is hard not stand against that cause if able. Is it wrong? In my opinion. Not as long as the proof is solid.