topic Re: God. in Among Friends

God.

house_cat — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 14:55:40 GMT

I'm sincerely hoping that this thread doesn't go awry.

I'm also hoping that the QVC moderators will see its value.

I don't know where else to bring up this topic, as it's not a good one for the workplace. I value the opinion of the participants in this forum.

My dad is 92 years old and in ill health. Yesterday, he said to me that he wishes he could believe in God. He said that it would make him less anxious. He was raised Catholic, but I've never seen him in church except for funerals and weddings. My mom was also raised Catholic, but has rarely gone to church and doesn't follow Catholic doctrine.

Dad said that he wishes he could believe, but being the educated person he is, he can't reconcile the science with the spirituality. I know there are millions of educated people, who are strong believers in God.

Can someone please suggest something I can say to him?

Thank you in advance for not making your responses judgmental or divisive.

Re: God.

chickenbutt — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:04:27 GMT

I truly don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but I'd back off.

I know from experience that the more people push it the more it makes you want to run from it.

There is nothing wrong with him believing, or not believing, what he wants to believe. Freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion.

He'll be ok. There is nothing wrong with him not believing in something that you believe - NOTHING at all. Some people need to believe that there is some magical god watching over them. I understand that. But some people don't and that's fine too. I would stop treating him like he's wrong or 'less' for his beliefs, or non-beliefs.

Re: God.

Karnerblue — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:06:33 GMT

I think you either believe or you don't. It's called faith. You either have it or you don't, No one can change a person's mind or make them believe. It has to come from within. How educated you are has nothing to do with this. My only suggestion would be to talk with a priest.

Re: God.

icezeus — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:08:37 GMT

I wish that I had words that could comfort you but I just can't.

I just don't think that at the advanced age of 92, that any words can be spoken to sway his thinking on this sensitive matter.

I had a good friend who does not believe tell me about two years ago, that he just can't believe that such a sensible person such as myself could believe in fairy tales.

It's faith for us. We do believe it, but swaying someone to our way of thinking will not be accomplished with a few words, or deeds and actions.

All that I can offer is that you continue to pray for your father.

Re: God.

rodda6 — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:08:45 GMT

I know where you're at. I always wished I could have talked to my Dad before he passed but I wasn't sure how to approach him. He never really brought it up. One thing I would say is that man's wisdom is foolishness to God. We cannot think our way to God. Ask your Dad to listen to his heart and not his head. All one needs to do is to ask forgiveness for sins and ask Jesus to come into our heart and accept Him as Lord and Savior. The wisdom of Christ will follow as you Dad will have new eyes to see the truth. I will pray for you to find the right words. Don't put it off. That's what I did. If your Dad doesn't accept it then that is his decision. Also, I always wonder what happens when a person is conscious, but not communicating, before they die. I think it is possible God comes to them and they make a choice then too.

Re: God.

sashamatthews — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:10:37 GMT

My dad is 89 and doesn't believe. At least I don't think he does. He used to go to Novena to th Virgin Mary with my mother years ago, but he is pretty cut and dry on the subject. This morning, his only living sibling (in Florida - we're in Connecticut) called and said he is being put into hospice care. His brother believes but sounded very shaky on the phone. Perhaps you could call the local hospice and ask them if they have any suggestions. The late Dr. Wayne Dyer may have written on the subject. I wish I could be more helpful. All the best to both of you.

Re: God.

DiAnne — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:11:42 GMT

I agree with your Dad. I don't think there is anything you can say. Everyone has the right to their own beliefs.

Re: God.

Chrystaltree2 — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:14:45 GMT

You can't say anything to him that would make him believe in God. They call it faith for a reason. You believe or you don't believe. No one talk you into it. I don't think your father wants that. He's 92, he doesn't have long in this world and it's understandable that he's thinking about what, if anything, comes after. People who are truly religous; know what comes after and they find peace in that. I think your father was only saying that he envies that.

Re: God.

Oostende — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:20:09 GMT

I have found Keith Ward's "Why There is Almost Certainly a God: Doubting Dawkins" to be a fine read.

If your father, as an educated man, is versed in a little philosophy and some physics, then he shouldn't have any trouble with the text.

Keith Ward is retired now, but he was the Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Oxford. His is an extraordinary mind.

For what it's worth, neither science nor religion can decisively claim an answer to the existential meaning of life and death. That is left up to each of us.

Best of luck.

Re: God.

dooBdoo — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:48:39 GMT

@house_cat, I think it depends upon whether your father was simply stating his general feelings -- perhaps expressing remorse -- or if he was reaching out for a way to change his belief system. Those are two different things.

C.S. Lewis' path to faith came to my mind, and reading about his thought processes might be of interest if your dad truly wants to pursue a diffferent journey.

But, again, is he just voicing wistful sentiments or actually reaching out for new ideas?

Re: God.

ChynnaBlue — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:21:46 GMT

The first thing I notice is that you say "I don't know where else to bring up this topic, as it's not a good one for the workplace."

It seems to me the best place to bring this up would not be work or a shopping web forum, but with someone from church. You've mentioned that neither of your parents go, but you didn't say anything about your own beliefs or practices.

I was born and raised Catholic, though I am not a Catholic now. My parents were always very active in church and attended many church events. My father was a member of several church groups, and the priests were some of the few people I remember my parents inviting over for dinner. They have a support system within their church.

Do you attend church yourself? Do you have a relationship with a priest, a spiritual leader, or a group of any kind? If so, I think that would be the best person to talk to about this. And if you don't have such a relationship, then it seems like you shouldn't worry about whether your father believes or not.

Re: God.

house_cat — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:22:51 GMT

@chickenbutt wrote:
I truly don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but I'd back off.

I know from experience that the more people push it the more it makes you want to run from it.

There is nothing wrong with him believing, or not believing, what he wants to believe. Freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion.

He'll be ok. There is nothing wrong with him not believing in something that you believe - NOTHING at all. Some people need to believe that there is some magical god watching over them. I understand that. But some people don't and that's fine too. I would stop treating him like he's wrong or 'less' for his beliefs, or non-beliefs.

Thanks for your response, but I'm not sure where this came from. He's the one who said, "I wish I could believe". I happen to share his view. I also wish I could believe. I think believers have an easier time with the trials of life.

Re: God.

Marienkaefer2 — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:25:02 GMT

@Karnerblue wrote:
I think you either believe or you don't. It's called faith. You either have it or you don't, No one can change a person's mind or make them believe. It has to come from within. How educated you are has nothing to do with this. My only suggestion would be to talk with a priest.

I totally agree with this. Faith is something that you have inside...you just know. It can't be explained by science or anything else.

In regards to what to say to comfort her father, I would advise the o/p to just say, "don't worry dad, I know everything is going to be alright. Don't be anxious. " I sort of went through a similar experience with my grandfather, who was Catholic by denomination, but I believe a bit of an agnostic his whole ife. He passed in peace, and I know at the end he was peaceful. I believe when you are really close to passing, you see how things are. Your dad will be fine.

Re: God.

house_cat — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:25:23 GMT

@ChynnaBlue wrote:

No, I do not attend church. I've tried many times and belonged to a Unitarian Universalist Church most recently, but I haven't felt at peace with any of them.

Re: God.

house_cat — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:27:47 GMT

FYI - I have to sign off until tonight. I wanted to meniton that so no one thinks I've abandoned the thread.

Thank you all for responding.

Re: God.

chickenbutt — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:30:06 GMT

Hi House Cat!

I think he probably wishes he could find the comfort that some do in believing these things. The reason he cannot find the comfort is probably because he cannot find a way to believe these things and that makes sense.

I see people who get comfort in believing in certain things and I have thought that I wouldn't mind going through life having that kind of comfort. But I feel like they are just looking for a place to anchor themselves and some people can do that more easily than others.

Hey, I'm as damaged as the next person and wouldn't mind having peace of mind. But I cannot force myself to believe things that make no sense to me. When people are asked about these things they just find ways (or are told ways) to justify their feelings. None of their feelings are based in anything realistic so there is no concrete way to do so. I'm pretty sure there is no god so I go on with my life in more of a reality-based manner as opposed to faith-based.

I hope some of that makes sense. It's just another POV.

Re: God.

Marienkaefer2 — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:33:11 GMT

House cat, I just read your last two posts. My "advice" (for lack of a better word) is to not stress over this with yourself or your dad. We are each on our own journey in life. Your post suggests that you might be trying too hard to have a sense of faith. Sometimes you just have to let it go. I think we bind ourselves up in the traditional avenues of faith, and if we don't get that from church we think why not. But faith is much bigger than that. I'm talking about spirituality.

Re: God.

Tinkrbl44 — Thu, 03 Sep 2015 04:34:57 GMT

@house_cat wrote:
I'm sincerely hoping that this thread doesn't go awry.
I'm also hoping that the QVC moderators will see its value.
I don't know where else to bring up this topic, as it's not a good one for the workplace. I value the opinion of the participants in this forum.

My dad is 92 years old and in ill health. Yesterday, he said to me that he wishes he could believe in God. He said that it would make him less anxious. He was raised Catholic, but I've never seen him in church except for funerals and weddings. My mom was also raised Catholic, but has rarely gone to church and doesn't follow Catholic doctrine.

Dad said that he wishes he could believe, but being the educated person he is, he can't reconcile the science with the spirituality. I know there are millions of educated people, who are strong believers in God.

Can someone please suggest something I can say to him?

Thank you in advance for not making your responses judgmental or divisive.

There's a huge difference between being religious and being spiritual ...... and I honestly believe a lot of religions are off track. Many educated people cannot "blindly" follow a religion because of questionable (religions) teachings, knowing that centuries ago many corrupt religious "leaders" fought to exert power over governments and people ... and even went so far as to change religious texts. How can anyone ignore that?

For instance, a religion that will remain nameless tells their followers that if you blow yourself up in a suicide bombing, you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins in the afterlife! Does any THINKING person believe this to be true? You can see my point.

If your father is a science-oriented person, my only suggestion is to take a walk in nature and point out all the everyday miracles ...... a large, beautiful tree .... baby birdies ..... the beauty of sunsets ...... all that went into creating our earth, solar system and universe certainly can't be random accidents!

That's my two cents ..... hope it helps.

Re: God.

MacDUFF — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:45:59 GMT

@house_cat

Hi house cat...

I'm sorry your dad is in ill health and wish him (and you) well.

Personally, I would appreciate someone sitting with me and just talking, discussing, debating, questioning G-d...His existence, His intentions/plans, etc...Maybe some questions could start an interesting discussion between you and your dad and maybe give him some things to think about...maybe just starting with the possibility of an intelligent designer...

My eyes? Intelligent design or chance chemistry?

My heart, my skin, my kidneys, lungs, cells, etc.? Intelligent design or chance chemistry?

Someone once said that the information contained in DNA is not like a language, it is a language...Language? Intelligent design or chance chemistry?

Is it possible that there is something or Someone outside of space-time tinkered with us and our universe? Like a painter to his painting...able to step in and out of the canvass and influence it? Someone with a tremendous amount of power and scientific know-how? Someone like G-d?

Your dad may enjoy some of C.S. Lewis' works.

Again, for me, I started with these kinds of questions. Then, I prayed and asked G-d to help me understand, to know the truth, etc. Then, I read the Bible from cover to cover.

If nothing else, it will give your dad some things to think about that may give him some comfort...and if, as many believe, G-d is real and the Bible is His word, your dad may get much, much more than comfort...he may get peace beyond understanding.

I hope my post doesn't get your thread poofed.

Again, I wish you and your dad all the best...peace, comfort, understanding.

MacDuff

Re: God.

PamfromCT — Wed, 02 Sep 2015 15:51:31 GMT

I think the very fact that your dad has reached out to you indicates that he wants to find something bigger than himself to believe in.

As he is an educated man, I think the poster who suggested a certain book to read is a great suggestion. If you are seeking faith, you will find it.

My faith in God, I pray, will always be with me. Ups and downs in life are many, but I do believe in the end everything will be fine. I did have an experience years ago that forever changed my life. I did experience a physical healing at a prayer service. It was a Catholic Charismatic service, and the priest, working through God, knew exactly what was wrong with me, and said God was healing me. I cried and cried and asked a few people there, why did God grant me this favor. Answer: "Don't you know God loves you?" My healing was verified by my physician.

You may believe me or not. Not important to me.

But from that point on, I felt that I was 100 percent sure of God's love, and because of my experience, He expects more of me.

Please pray, and have others pray, for your father to experience God's love.