topic Re: CA Tragedy in Community Chat

CA Tragedy

Noel7 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:45:34 GMT

A Bakersfield neighbor called police to report a man was walking around brandishing a gun at women. Police responded, told the man to stop walking and shot him dead as he walked toward them.

The man was 73 year old Francisco Serna, a retiree with Alzheimer's.

He had no gun at all, he was carrying a crucifix in his hand.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/california-grandpa-fatally-shot-crucifix-not-gun-article-1.2910641

What have we become?

Re: CA Tragedy

happycat — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:50:51 GMT

Oh my goodness, how heartbreaking. I don't know what we have become, but I have been wondering the same thing.

Re: CA Tragedy

jaxs mom — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:50:57 GMT

I don't even know what to say. are these witnesses stupid or blind that reported a gun where there was a crucifix? And what the heck were the police thinking? Where is the training for situations with the mentally challenged?

Re: CA Tragedy

Noel7 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:52:12 GMT

Re: CA Tragedy

Nightowlz — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:01:20 GMT

Surely they could see that was not a gun.

We had a guy walking down the street that runs out from our neighborhood with a rifle a few weeks ago. The police were called & he was picked up before anything happened. He had a backpack with several rounds of ammo, 3 knives & I cannot remember what else. He told police he felt it was his right to walk down the street with his rifle? They had no idea what he had in mind to do. He said he was just going for a walk. I'm sure he was up to something or why all the ammo in the backpack? Why even carry a rifle on a walk? He was not far from a school when he was picked up.

Re: CA Tragedy

Puzzle Piece — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:53:18 GMT

He may have held it to where it appeared like a gun. I am not at all annoyed with Law Enforcement. Where were the guardians or care takers of the old man??

Re: CA Tragedy

Noel7 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:54:02 GMT

Mr. Cerna was shot nine times.

Heartbreaking.

Re: CA Tragedy

cherry — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:56:59 GMT

I wonder how much training the police officer had.? It's sad alright ,but so is this. I think we have become an armed camp, and the police want to live too...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4033688/Shocking-footage-shows-suspect-shooting-two-police-officers-Georgia-asked-repeatedly-hands-pockets.html

Re: CA Tragedy

esmeraldagooch — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:57:17 GMT

How could he be out doing all this without a guardian. In other news 6 officers have been shot this week in Georgia.

Re: CA Tragedy

WenGirl42 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:57:34 GMT

@jaxs mom wrote:
I don't even know what to say. are these witnesses stupid or blind that reported a gun where there was a crucifix? And what the heck were the police thinking? Where is the training for situations with the mentally challenged?

I can't fault the witnesses here...it is an unfortunately reasonable assumption to make if someone seems to be acting oddly with something in their hand, and you don't want to get too close. But there is no excuse for trained LE just taking witnesses' word and not verifying that he had a gun, which should have been easy for them to distinguish. So sad.

Re: CA Tragedy

Noel7 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 17:58:04 GMT

@Puzzle Piece wrote:
He may have held it to where it appeared like a gun. I am not at all annoyed with Law Enforcement. Where were the guardians or care takers of the old man??

**************************

Have you ever had to care for someone with Alzheimer's @Puzzle Piece ?

Many wander, they get out of the house, walk, get lost, and sometimes they die out in the cold.

If there is a way to lock them inside, apparently it hasn't been found yet.

Re: CA Tragedy

NickNack — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:01:49 GMT

I read that this happened in the middle of the night. His caregivers were probably asleep.

Re: CA Tragedy

Nightowlz — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:05:25 GMT

@Noel7 wrote:
Mr. Cerna was shot nine times.

Heartbreaking.

@Noel7 There's just no excuse for that. They don't have to shoot to kill in situations like this. What's wrong with using their taser or at least shoot in a place that won't kill them but stop them so they can arrest them.

Police need new training if they think it's ok to shoot a 73 yr old man they thought had a gun.

Re: CA Tragedy

cherry — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:09:31 GMT

If it happened in the middle of the night, it could put a different slant on it. The police might not have been able to determine what it was in his hand. It might have looked like a gun to him, and he fired rapidly

I don't want to condemn him without all the facts

Re: CA Tragedy

Mz iMac — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:13:10 GMT

@Noel7

According to the article you linked....

He did not have Alzheimer's. He was in the early stages of dementia. Alzheimers was never mentioned in the article.

911 calls reported man w/gun.

No way for police to know "no gun." They were going by what was called in to "911."

Man kept hands in pocket & did not respond to police commands. Kept coming toward them.

How were the police to know this man had dementia????

Most important question of all....

Where were his caretakers? This "killing" occurred 12:30 AM.

Re: CA Tragedy

Noel7 — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:16:09 GMT

A point I was trying to make is that people seem to assume so much nowadays, and because of that, this man is dead. The police seem to have assumed the wild eyed neighbor was right and they shot an old man nine times.

I agree with the poster who said they had other means, a taser.

Re: CA Tragedy

Burnsite — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:16:15 GMT

With my siblings, I shared care of my dad, an Alzheimer's patient, from the 1980s to 2000, when he died. They do wander, and they might look aggressive to someone not used to the illness, esp. in its early stages.

Once he got away out of the house and police found him and were very kind and brought him home. This was in a small town. They knew who he was. In cities, I think things are so much more complex. It is a tragedy, for certain.

I read once that Alzheimer's patients roam (especially at sundown) because they are searching for their memories.

Re: CA Tragedy

ladyroxanne — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:17:33 GMT

i saw this on the news. i's such a terrible mistake. 9 bullets is a bit overkill imo. i wonder how these officers feel after doing such a thing.

Re: CA Tragedy

SahmIam — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:18:41 GMT

Mz iMac stated it very well.

Another take on it:

They don't shoot after telling the man to stop, to raise his arms repeatedly. They get close enough to tazer and he pulls a gun and shoots them blank range. Now what?

You see, it's easy to say this and that AFTER the fact but you don't know what's going to happen DURING the situation. Police shoot to kill; two shots. Why? Because you don't want a p*ssed off person with a weapon of any kind coming after you, in a rage and with your death being their #1 priority.

What happened to this man is sad. It's sad for so many reason. To come down on the police as if they WANTED to kill the man is wrong, inaccurate and kind-of baiting. It's always the cops fault, right? At least, until the truth comes out.

Re: CA Tragedy

jubilant — Wed, 14 Dec 2016 18:20:14 GMT

This is tragic, I agree. Anyone, especially policeman and soldiers, know that often the person who gets the first shot off lives to see another day. Police officers want to live, too. They know that they are particularly vulnerable now so I think we will see more of this, sad to say. If that police officer was your son or grandson....how would you feel? How awful do you think he will feel? They are darned if they do and darned if they don't. If that had been a gun, the officer probably wouldn't be here. Try to make that decision in a split second and then judge for yourselves.