topic Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals in Community Chat

Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Kachina624 — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:51:25 GMT

We hear so much about the above subject and the abuses occuring when people want to take all manner of animal life in public places claiming their darling is an "emotional support" animal. We were even treated to a pic of an uncaged turkey in an airliner seat. I did a little research on the subject.

The Americans With Disabilities Act has a pretty narrow definition of what a bona-fide service dog is, and most of the poodles and chihuahuas don't meet the definition. There is no mention of emotional support animals being covered by the ADA. Any animal could provide emotional support...it doesn't require training.

I question the use of miniature horses as service animals. I've worked with horses and know how difficult it is to train them, especially to do something abstract like safely guide a person across a street. They are not the brightest of animals. I've never heard of one being housebroken.

I think businesses, even large corporations, need training on the provisions of this act. They're being taken advantage of.

SERVICE ANIMALS - CLICK

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

DiAnne — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 04:27:21 GMT

I agree. I am tired of seeing "emotional support" dogs in grocery stores, restaurants, on airplanes, etc.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Gram W — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 04:45:12 GMT

In my area any support animal has to be verified and wears a special vest stating support. My part time job was nights in a large grocery store. Per the local health Dept no shirt, no shoes and no support vest you could not come in the store. Yes we did see small breed dogs in a basket on a motorized cart. He had his vest so he could come in. Those animals are trained and very well behaved. When you see one you are not to give him attention as he is working. Treat them just like you would a seeing eye dog. We had our share of people trying to bring pets in, especially in this heat. They are not smart enough to leave their pets at home when they shop.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

phoenixbrd — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 05:36:57 GMT

Emotional support dogs are required to undergo training and be certified;however, this isn't always the case with a "service" dog.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

qualitygal — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 07:23:29 GMT

@Kachina624,

Did you ever see the show about the couple that finally moved out the pet buffalo they had let roam in their house? How'd you like to house train that one, and what's he do to the door to let you know he has to "go" out? Boy howdie.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Kachina624 — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:16:29 GMT

@Gram W wrote:
In my area any support animal has to be verified and wears a special vest stating support. My part time job was nights in a large grocery store. Per the local health Dept no shirt, no shoes and no support vest you could not come in the store. Yes we did see small breed dogs in a basket on a motorized cart. He had his vest so he could come in. Those animals are trained and very well behaved. When you see one you are not to give him attention as he is working. Treat them just like you would a seeing eye dog. We had our share of people trying to bring pets in, especially in this heat. They are not smart enough to leave their pets at home when they shop.

@Gram W A vest means nothing. You can buy them online all day long by the dozen. Did you read the link I posted?

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Kachina624 — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:22:00 GMT

@phoenixbrd wrote:
Emotional support dogs are required to undergo training and be certified;however, this isn't always the case with a "service" dog.

@phoenixbrd Did you read the link I posted? The ADA doesn't even recognize "emotional support animals". They undergo no training whatsoever. It's service animals that must have specialized training to preform specific tasks.

Apparently "emotional support" is a term coined by people who are just trying to get their household pets into otherwise forbidden places. Legally they don't exist.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Kachina624 — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 08:25:42 GMT

@qualitygal wrote:
@Kachina624,
Did you ever see the show about the couple that finally moved out the pet buffalo they had let roam in their house? How'd you like to house train that one, and what's he do to the door to let you know he has to "go" out? Boy howdie.

@qualitygal Yes, Animal Planet has featured this beast on several programs. His owners were flirting with disaster in forgetting that a bison is a wild animal. Talk about a bull in a china shop.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

10sluvr — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:31:33 GMT

i think all pets are "emotional support animals".

that does't mean they should be a constant companion. if you can't go in a grocery store without it, you have bigger problems. when someone has a python, in a vest, i will leave the store -pronto!

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

CrazyDaisy — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 11:55:16 GMT

While in some cases I believe emotional support animals may be beneficial for some people, the vast majority are just ridiculous claims. These animals have no training and can often be dangerous for others to be around. Unfortunately businesses don't want to open themselves to lawsuits, so they let these people get away with their behavior. I believe that if people are going to need to take these emotional support animals into public they will need to undergo some type of certification and testing that they are safe to be taken into public places.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Stray — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:36:53 GMT

@Kachina624@phoenixbrd@Gram W- you are correct @Kachina624. Sadly people abuse this designation and officials, businesses etc do not know or investigate their rights under ADA or the rights of those affected by abuse of ADA rules. Emotional support animals require no training and a vest can be purchased for $75 online. A service animal allows a disabled person to function in society and the disability is usually quite visible and the animals receive specific rigorous training re to that disability . They can't be questioned or denied entrance or access but an "emotional support" animal CAN and should be questioned but DIAGNOSIS CAN NEVER BE REQUESTED because the disability is invisible. I handled ADA in the workplace and have denied requests to have emotional support animals at work. I have requested a doctor's note which states the need not A DIAGNOSIS and that he/she ordered or suggested such an animal. I also made the note quite strong stating that there are people with allergies to animals, fear of animals and in one case, a woman stated her dog was "a peanut sniffing dog" and necessary for her due to severe peanut allergy....I listed how this would affect others, the cost to the Company in terms of finance, inconvenience and no other person could eat peanut butter for lunch! But would comply based on MEDICAL NECESSITY and REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION. No note ever came....if you are breaking a law like a health code in a grocery store, a doctor would not submit such a note if not authentic and I, quite frankly, do not know of any diagnosis that would cause an emotional collapse during shopping if their dog (usually) was not present. NO business or private entity must make the accommodation under ADA, only REASONABLE.

An airline can question an "emotional support" animal MINUS DIAGNOSIS....BUT if a person suffers from severe anxiety during flight, holding their animal might help....so it could be legitimate and I do have a friend who travels with her cats in cabin for a fee who has no medical need...so an "emotional support" animal and owner have the same right....but how about the animal's anxiety?

Most businesses don't bother to question, are afraid of being sued under ADA and local officials don't support businesses or venues because they just don't know the law.

I love animals and live in an animal friendly building with very liberal rules but people go beyond the rules and regs. As a board member, I requested a medical note identifying the dog as an emotional support animal (for OEM), ordered or suggested by him/her and the reasons why the dog must be at the pool, use a specific entrance, be on the terrace at night or any other infraction an owner does....to date, I have received notes stating the "dog helps the owner living alone" "with anxiety" etc but never condoning or suggesting they break rules or be given special attention/access...a dog does not belong in a grocery store; it's a health code violation and infringes on the rights of other shoppers.

sorry for the length but a pet peeve of mine when people are not aware of THEIR rights affected by laws nor do entities/local officials investigate or understand laws to protect ALL citizens...

and, do you really think these dogs want to be dragged to supermarkets, churches, movies???( In the heat/cold) What about their rights and anxieties ugh!

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Stray — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:38:37 GMT

@Kachina624 wrote:
@qualitygal wrote:
@Kachina624,
Did you ever see the show about the couple that finally moved out the pet buffalo they had let roam in their house? How'd you like to house train that one, and what's he do to the door to let you know he has to "go" out? Boy howdie.
@qualitygal Yes, Animal Planet has featured this beast on several programs. His owners were flirting with disaster in forgetting that a bison is a wild animal. Talk about a bull in a china shop.

@Kachina624 @qualitygal- do you think this animal wants to be there? And if it makes the wrong turn, he/she gets put down....

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Stray — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 12:39:09 GMT

@10sluvr wrote:
i think all pets are "emotional support animals".

that does't mean they should be a constant companion. if you can't go in a grocery store without it, you have bigger problems. when someone has a python, in a vest, i will leave the store -pronto!

@10sluvr- exactly!

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

colliegirls — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 13:59:55 GMT

I have stated before that I feel most "emotional support" claims are a load of cr@p.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Yardlie — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:25:08 GMT

@Kachina624 wrote:
We hear so much about the above subject and the abuses occuring when people want to take all manner of animal life in public places claiming their darling is an "emotional support" animal. We were even treated to a pic of an uncaged turkey in an airliner seat. I did a little research on the subject.

The Americans With Disabilities Act has a pretty narrow definition of what a bona-fide service dog is, and most of the poodles and chihuahuas don't meet the definition. There is no mention of emotional support animals being covered by the ADA. Any animal could provide emotional support...it doesn't require training.

I question the use of miniature horses as service animals. I've worked with horses and know how difficult it is to train them, especially to do something abstract like safely guide a person across a street. They are not the brightest of animals. I've never heard of one being housebroken.

I think businesses, even large corporations, need training on the provisions of this act. They're being taken advantage of.

SERVICE ANIMALS - CLICK

@Kachina624 ... What I am posting here is some current, important info. re. ESAs and airlines. I helped an older neighbor get her cat certified as an Emotional Support Animal for an airplane trip she took a few weeks ago. It has been quite the learning experience.

First, there are only two situations in which an emotional support animal gets you a benefit. The first is on an airline, where ESAs fly free. The second is in housing...where you cannot be denied housing because you have an ESA. Going into any other situation (like Walmart, theatres, restaurants, etc.) is not covered just because you have an ESA. However, most of these places do not know the law, so they allow them in anyway. ESAs are not service animals. They do not have all those rights.

When I made the plane reservation for my friend, I talked to the reservation agent on the phone about the ESA. She told me that my friend needed a letter from her psychiatrist and a health certificate from the vet that was dated within 10 days of the flight. I helped my friend get these things, and we certified her cat online with esaregistration.org. I was confused why there was more than one registry, but we chose this one.

When my friend went to the airport, United Airlines asked to see her letter from her psychiatrist and the pet's health certificate. My friend said they denied both. They did not care at all about the certificate from ESA.org online. In fact, they told her it was not legally necessary to register an esa with a registry. So....all those vests that people purchase online for their dogs are actually useless. They told my friend that they were denying the psychiatrist's letter because it did not have the psychiatrist's license number on it. (The airline did not tell us this was necessary when we received the information, but wouldn't you think the psychiatrist would put it on the letter?) Also, they denied the veterinarian's health certificate because it did not have the breed or weight of the animal on it. Additionally, the airline denied my friend's cat because they said that both these documents have to be faxed to United Medical within 48 hours of the flight. The United reservation agent never told us about this. My friend called me upset and crying. I talked with the United agent and told them that the vet filled in the breed with DLH (domestic long hair) as I saw the certificate. The certificate did not ask for the weight. Also, the reservation agent never told us about faxing the info. to United Medical. They said my friend would have to pay for the cat's flight on this trip.

Long story short...they called their Chicago office and after a lot of fighting and after faxing the documents, they admitted their error and made an exception for my friend and her cat...for this trip only. Also, they said that once this information is faxed to United Medical, it is good for one full year. Additionally, they said that since an ESA is a comfort pet, the pet is allowed out of it's carrier on the flight. They also mentioned that every airline requires different things. This is only what United Airlines requires.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

Kachina624 — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:41:16 GMT

@Yardlie If you read the link I posted, you'll see the ADA doesn't not recognize emotional support animals. Every animal has the capacity to be one. They are not trained and are just there to pet, talk to or whatever. There's no certification for them. The airlines are not obligated to allow them on planes, and from your experience, it sounds like they're cracking down. As is often the case, people have taken advantage of the uncertainty of the provisions of the ADA to get their pets on flights.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

qualitygal — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:50:32 GMT

@Stray,

I know, that was just unthinkable to me. That poor animal doesn't belong in that home. Why don't people understand about wild animals? IT escapes me!!!

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

PamfromCT — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:53:52 GMT

A while back, there was quite an incident on a plane with a "support animal" in my area.

Fortunately, it was before the plane took off. A large pig, a supposed support animal, created such a ruckus that owner and pig were ejected from the plane.

Now, I love animals. I certainly have no problem with appropriate support animals. Of late I encountered a lady carrying a small support dog in the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. We approached her, told her how cute and well-behaved her dog was, and had an interesting conversation with her. And what a cutie that dog was. Wish I could have taken that doggie home!

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

chrystaltree — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 15:13:43 GMT

Service dogs do go through extensive training but emotional support dogs do not. Emotional support cats, birds, snakes and turkey don't go through training either. This is has become a hot button topic at our condo meetings. Of course, service animals are allowed. We have a couple of blind people in the complex who use dogs. About a year ago the whole "emotional support" animal thing came up and caused quite a ruckus. Partly because there is no real definition and any animal that any person owns is for emotional support. So, after much blah blah blah. Our condo rules were amended. Cats are now allowed but they must be kept indoors at all times. If a cat is being transported, it must be in a carrier. Emotional support dogs are allowed but the owner must present a letter from their doctor or therapist and the dogs must be under 25lbs. Pit bulls are excluded. The owners must scoop up the poop. There is also a $600 yearly fee for anyone who has an emotional support dog. This is to cover repairs to the lawns and because most dog owners do not scoop the poop and so now the maintenance crew has to do that.

Re: Service Dogs and Emotional Support Animals

jaxs mom — Tue, 26 Jul 2016 15:15:31 GMT

I just can't get worked up over this. It doesn't bother me in the least.