topic Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts) in Community Chat

Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

Marp — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:34:19 GMT

(emphasis added)

After complaining at work and hoping to enact change, a class of interns was met with a very unexpected outcome.

A blog post on askamanager.com says that a reader recently scored a summer position at a company within the field the individual hopes to work in post-graduation. “Even though the division I was hired to work in doesn’t deal with clients or customers, there still was a very strict dress code,” the person wrote, adding that they felt the clothing rules were “overly strict” but weren’t going to complain. That is, “until I noticed one of the workers always wore flat shoes that were made from a fabric other than leather, or running shoes, even though both of these things were contrary to the dress code.”

Angered by the hypocrisy, the reader rallied other interns, and the group wrote a proposal, along with a petition signed by the whole class (minus one who declined to participate). The request mostly focused on footwear, asking for non-dress shoes that would fit under a more business casual dress code, but also asked if it was possible for the workers to not have to wear suits and/or blazers in favor of a more casual but still professional dress code.

The next day, everyone who signed was called into a meeting, where the lot was informed that due to their “unprofessional behavior,” they were being let go. “We were told to hand in our ID badges and to gather our things and leave the property ASAP,” the post reads. The young adults were shocked and weren’t given a chance to defend their actions. But that’s not the worst part. “Just before the meeting ended, one of the managers told us that the worker who was allowed to disobey the dress code was a former soldier who lost her leg and was therefore given permission to wear whatever kind of shoes she could walk in. You can’t even tell, and if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument.”

https://www.yahoo.com/style/interns-get-fired-en-masse-after-protesting-dress-201632030.html

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

Mrsq2022 — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:47:17 GMT

Good for the individual that opted out! Wow. Clearly, none of those interns got the memo that an internship is an on-site interview....a trial period. And if you go to an interview trying to "enact change" you won't likely get a call back...

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

SaRina — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 17:41:39 GMT

Good for the company. They did the right thing.

Young adults entering the working world need to understand....you do not make demands or otherwise make waves when starting a new job. Unless you are being outrightly abused, you are a nobody and that means you keep your mouth shut and do your job with all its rules. That even goes for any experienced adult who is starting a new job.

I don't know what these young people are "missing". Respect for authority?

Lol at the second part of the last sentence in the OP: "..... if we had know about this, we would have factored it in to our argument." They obviously learned nothing.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

151949 — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:50:05 GMT

Know the facts was one lesson - the other was that when you take a job they make the rules. Their business - their rules. If you don't like it - you are easily replaced.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

violann — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:54:56 GMT

Lessons learned?

Interns are easily replaced.

Ask and listen, then act and speak.

Choose your battles.

Being 20 may SEEM much more powerful than actually BEING more powerful.

Don't protest your lack of rights uNTIL you know what rights you DO have.

Your first firing is not a tragedy, it is a golden opportunity for learning.

More. --------?

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

151949 — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 13:57:19 GMT

@violann wrote:
Lessons learned?

Interns are easily replaced.
Ask and listen, then act and speak.
Choose your battles.
Being 20 may SEEM much more powerful than actually BEING more powerful.
Don't protest your lack of rights uNTIL you know what rights you DO have.
Your first firing is not a tragedy, it is a golden opportunity for learning.

More. --------?

FIRST firing ?!?! I've never been fired from a job in my life.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

GCR18 — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 14:43:34 GMT

I can see something like this happening at work. My company supplements the workforce with interns and co-ops. They range from 19 - 21. The generation has a different way of thinking and act entitled.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

hoosieroriginal — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 14:48:02 GMT

@SaRina wrote:
Good for the company. They did the right thing.

Young adults entering the working world need to understand....you do not make demands or otherwise make waves when starting a new job. Unless you are being outrightly abused, you are a nobody and that means you keep your mouth shut and do your job with all its rules. That even goes for any experienced adult who is starting a new job.

I don't know what these young people are "missing". Respect for authority? What dumbfounds me is the second part of the last sentence in the OP:

"..... if we had know about this, we would have factored it in to our argument." They obviously learned nothing.

@SaRina - I totally agree with you - these young people think they run the place anymore, think they can sit on their I-phones all day, and think they can slack all day. I think businesses are realizing what older workers can bring to the workplace - for one thing, appreciating having a job!

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

Moonchilde — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:05:29 GMT

@hoosieroriginal wrote:
@SaRina wrote:
Good for the company. They did the right thing.

Young adults entering the working world need to understand....you do not make demands or otherwise make waves when starting a new job. Unless you are being outrightly abused, you are a nobody and that means you keep your mouth shut and do your job with all its rules. That even goes for any experienced adult who is starting a new job.

I don't know what these young people are "missing". Respect for authority? What dumbfounds me is the second part of the last sentence in the OP:

"..... if we had know about this, we would have factored it in to our argument." They obviously learned nothing.
@SaRina - I totally agree with you - these young people think they run the place anymore, think they can sit on their I-phones all day, and think they can slack all day. I think businesses are realizing what older workers can bring to the workplace - for one thing, appreciating having a job!

Only if by "older workers" you mean 30. No, businesses have no use for anyone over 50, nor do they care about work ethic or experience. The ONLY thing a business cares about today is how little salary/benefits they can get away with paying, and how willing an employee is to be worked into the ground. Fast food restaurants and Wal-Mart greeters may be the exception.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

TeezNu — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 16:29:28 GMT

Company absolutely did the right thing by terminating quickly all who were involved.

Productivity and morale were negatively impacted by these interns' energy being angry, rallying other interns, and writing a proposal - all over a silly personal issue that had nothing to do with the product or service of the company.

Company's action also sends a clear message to other employees who may not have their priorities straight.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

151949 — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 16:31:11 GMT

I think a good employee is appreciated no matter their age. The more important factor is attitude. You are there to work, as my boss used to love to say - If this was easy they wouldn't have to pay someone to do it. I've known lazy older workers and lazy young new grads. That doesn't change.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

lolakimono — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 16:56:35 GMT

IMO, this "lesson" is the reason why certain things in education are creating more problems than they are solving.

For instance, no student who produces a "good faith effort" can earn less than a 50% on an assignment. Also, students can REDO anything (other than what is excluded in writing on the syllabus) for one opportunity to earn a better grade. They have to complete the original version on time, but can essentially redo whatever they want, and they earn the better of the two grades.

We have explained that in the "real world" there are no do-overs.

You're a doctor? You don't get to operate on a patient AGAIN because you did it wrong the first time.

You're a lawyer? You don't get to defend someone AGAIN because you weren't prepared for cross examination.

You're a businessman? You don't get to redo the presentation for the client AGAIN next week because you didn't have the research ready in time for the meeting.

These interns feel that this was "unfair" and they want a do-over because that's all they have ever experienced. They always have opportunities to "fix" things, if they have unsatisfactory results, and if they don't like that answer, their parents will swoop in and go to the top until they get things resolved to their liking.

This type of situation will continue because they don't really "get" it, that firing is a consequence in the real world, and for that there are no do-overs.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

violann — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 17:21:36 GMT

@151949 wrote:
@violann wrote:
Lessons learned?

Interns are easily replaced.
Ask and listen, then act and speak.
Choose your battles.
Being 20 may SEEM much more powerful than actually BEING more powerful.
Don't protest your lack of rights uNTIL you know what rights you DO have.
Your first firing is not a tragedy, it is a golden opportunity for learning.

More. --------?
FIRST firing ?!?! I've never been fired from a job in my life.

Nor have I, but even though you may find it hard to believe this, some people ARE fired, and LIFE GOES ON!

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

wildcat fan — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 17:45:26 GMT

@lolakimono wrote:
IMO, this "lesson" is the reason why certain things in education are creating more problems than they are solving.

For instance, no student who produces a "good faith effort" can earn less than a 50% on an assignment. Also, students can REDO anything (other than what is excluded in writing on the syllabus) for one opportunity to earn a better grade. They have to complete the original version on time, but can essentially redo whatever they want, and they earn the better of the two grades.

We have explained that in the "real world" there are no do-overs.
You're a doctor? You don't get to operate on a patient AGAIN because you did it wrong the first time.

You're a lawyer? You don't get to defend someone AGAIN because you weren't prepared for cross examination.

You're a businessman? You don't get to redo the presentation for the client AGAIN next week because you didn't have the research ready in time for the meeting.

These interns feel that this was "unfair" and they want a do-over because that's all they have ever experienced. They always have opportunities to "fix" things, if they have unsatisfactory results, and if they don't like that answer, their parents will swoop in and go to the top until they get things resolved to their liking.

This type of situation will continue because they don't really "get" it, that firing is a consequence in the real world, and for that there are no do-overs.

Great points, @lolakimono! Around here it's even worse than you described. Students can retake any assessment as many times as they want--even after the report cards have been printed. It's so bad that two teachers on my team (science and social studies) built in 100 bonus points into the grade if the assignment was turned in on time or early. If the assignment was turned in late (one kid's was over a month late), the students only got 90 bonus points. The kid who did nothing for more than a month walked away with a grade of 185/100. The teachers offer many bonus points on individual assignments so they don't have to deal with time consuming retests and mama drama.

Girls walk around with backless dresses and tops, short skirts, and low cut tops. Boys wear their pants sagging beneath their bottoms showing off their boxer shorts. There are grading and dress policies in place, but get ready to sit in front of a firing squad if you want to enforce the rules. Band and chorus students opt out of core subject classes because they have a special concert or audition coming up (which occurs every 3-4 weeks).

It's crazy how the students and parents are running the school. I'm not surprised the kids grow up and think they can run the business shortly after being hired.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

KateinOK — Sat, 02 Jul 2016 18:26:54 GMT

@Marp, thanks for the post. My son is about to go off to college and i had him read the article. This is great advice for people entering college and first careers. It's better to keep your mouth shut and assume you don't know the entire situation before setting you career on fire. Good for management......hopefully the interns learned a valuable lesson.
Kate

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

Marcail0825 — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 03:01:18 GMT

@lolakimono wrote:
IMO, this "lesson" is the reason why certain things in education are creating more problems than they are solving.

For instance, no student who produces a "good faith effort" can earn less than a 50% on an assignment. Also, students can REDO anything (other than what is excluded in writing on the syllabus) for one opportunity to earn a better grade. They have to complete the original version on time, but can essentially redo whatever they want, and they earn the better of the two grades.

We have explained that in the "real world" there are no do-overs.
You're a doctor? You don't get to operate on a patient AGAIN because you did it wrong the first time.

You're a lawyer? You don't get to defend someone AGAIN because you weren't prepared for cross examination.

You're a businessman? You don't get to redo the presentation for the client AGAIN next week because you didn't have the research ready in time for the meeting.

These interns feel that this was "unfair" and they want a do-over because that's all they have ever experienced. They always have opportunities to "fix" things, if they have unsatisfactory results, and if they don't like that answer, their parents will swoop in and go to the top until they get things resolved to their liking.

This type of situation will continue because they don't really "get" it, that firing is a consequence in the real world, and for that there are no do-overs.

Great post @lolakimono!

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

violann — Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:50:01 GMT

BUT- did anyone catch the story that was on CBS radio news yesterday about the two kids (one female, one male) who were hired to do THE SAME JOB at a chain restaurant, and when they compared notes, as friends, learned that SHE was making .25 less/hour than HE was?

Upon reporting this to their crew chief, they were both fired because, CC told them, company policy did not permit "discussion about salaries".

These kids went above the rank of the crew chief, and the CREW CHIEF was then fired and the kids reinstated, at THE SAME PAY.

Moral? There isn't one, except to be very VERY sure that you've done comprehensive research before opening your mouth.

Re: Lesson Taught But Was It Learned (a/k/a Know the Facts)

colliegirls — Mon, 04 Jul 2016 00:13:07 GMT

What I have told my children for years as they left for school, "Follow the rules, mind your own business, and keep your mouth shut" also good for a workplace( unless there is an major issue or injustice).