topic Re: Just wondering, who pays for this? in Community Chat

Just wondering, who pays for this?

KathyPet — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:05:44 GMT

I was just reading about the Air Dubai plane crash in Russia and that technical experts from the FAA and the NTSB would be going there to assist in the investigation. Now we all know that there Are costs involved in sending staff. Hotels, food, transportation plus if they are there then obviously they are not working on issues here. Don't the two countries involved (Russian and Dubai) have their own staff for this? Why does the US have to send government employees over there and who pays this cost? This is not the first time this has happened. I notice that every time there is a crash anywhere the FAA and NTSB show up. Why?..

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

adoreqvc — Sun, 27 Mar 2016 02:06:17 GMT

UPDATE: Are you for real KathyPet?????

Various Agencies and people go to assist others, and also learn why it happend, so perhaps our U.S. Agencies and others can ensure we/they do not suffer the same fate.

It is also for humanitarian reasons, and we have also received help from others when we also suffered catastrophic events.

Human lives are precious and I wonder if you lost a loved one aboard that flight KathyPet if you would be the first one to scream for help to be sent globally, and not ever question who would pay for those monetary costs, because no amount of $ can ever bring back a human life lost in a catastropic plane crash, or any other catastrophic event here in the United States or globally!

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

KathyPet — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:47:19 GMT

sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Desertdi — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 12:52:13 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

It was an American made aircraft...........Can you imagine the propaganda if WE didn't investigate?

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Plaid Pants2 — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:00:02 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

No two crashes are exactly the same. Each crash is different and unique.

And this was a Boeing made airplane.

Boeing is made in the U.S. of A.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

ValuSkr — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:03:54 GMT

@Desertdi wrote:
@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?
It was an American made aircraft...........Can you imagine the propaganda if WE didn't investigate?

I think desertDi is correct - we're included in the investigation because the plane was American-made - a Boeing 737. I think French authorities are usually involved when an Airbus crashes. Right or wrong, it seems like generally-accepted practice. In this age of terrorism, it's not a bad thing.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Sunshine Kate — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:12:07 GMT

@Plaid Pants2 wrote:
@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

No two crashes are exactly the same. Each crash is different and unique.

And this was a Boeing made airplane.

Boeing is made in the U.S. of A.

Oh wow!! At least something is made in the USA.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

KathyPet — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:13:25 GMT

so, let Boeing send their people. They are a private company let them pay for it.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Marp — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:14:09 GMT

The NTSB investigates and reports on all U.S. air carrier accidents, commuter and air taxi crashes, mid-air collisions, serious mishaps involving public use (government) aircraft and all fatal general aviation accidents. The NTSB also investigates accidents involving both civilian and military aircraft and crashes involving military aircraft where the functions of the FAA are at issue. Internationally, the NTSB investigates major accidents involving U.S. air carriers and U.S. manufactured airliners under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). The NTSB even investigates foreign air carrier crashes in U.S. possession and territories, such as the KAL 801 crash in Guam.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

MaggieMack — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:26:13 GMT

I was in Ground School class one morning at our airport, being held in the business aviation section away from commercial traffic. Out the window, we saw a small plane, a Cessna 150, clip another small plane with a wing while taxiing very slowly. No injuries, except to the ego. Yet the pilot was told not to move the plane until it could be seen by NTSB personnel.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

terrier3 — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:46:19 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

Whenever the plane was made in France or Germany or England (plane parts like engines too) - officials from those companies investigate US crashes.

I can't believe ANYONE would object to our tax money going to help investigate crashes ANYWHERE in the world - since this research ultimately helps make US domestic air travel safer too.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Another new name Sue — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 13:52:31 GMT

@terrier3 Thank you for this intelligent reply. The more we know and understand what is going on in aviation everywhere, especially in this case which involves how other countries are operating, the more informed and safer everyone will be. We cannot be the proverbial "ostrich with it's head in the sand."

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Stray — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:04:19 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
sorry, but can you cite examples of a airline crash on US soil involving a US Airliner when experts from other countries were asked to assist because I have never read of any such assistance being used. This was a crash involving No US citizens, not on US soil and not involving a US airline so why are we there? As far as learning every time a crash happens there are extensive investigations and reports issued. Why can't we learn from those? Why do we have to spend our tax money flying people to another country for something like this?

@KathyPet- I don't know the composition of the passengers but if there are US passengers aboard, our people are dispensed. It doesn't necessarily have to be on our soil but there are American interests all over the world and Dubai is one of our allies, many Americans live there or have business interests; they have helped us financially and with intelligence. If a call was made from Dubai requesting help in Russia, we respond. Our experts are known as the best and Dubai, most likely, has trust in us, especially ruling out terrorism. I worked in the 9/11 respite after the tragedy and met people from all over the world who came to help us, including citizens of Dubai, United Emirates and Kuwait and they donated heavily to the 9/11 fund. It is what we, as Americans do; we are humanitarians. I don't think the tax payers foot the bill for humanitarian aide, it is budgeted and often a joint activity with non profit organizations.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Stray — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:05:26 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
so, let Boeing send their people. They are a private company let them pay for it.

They can't conflict of interest

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

YorkieonmyPillow — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:06:36 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
so, let Boeing send their people. They are a private company let them pay for it.

I agree.

No reason taxpayers' money should go for this.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Mominohio — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:17:06 GMT

@adoreqvc wrote:
To assist and learn why it happend so perhaps these U.S. Agencies can ensure we do not suffer the same fate.

It is also for humanitarian reasons, and we have also received help from others when we also suffered catastrophic events.

Very good post. And let's not forget that even though terrorism isn't suspected, getting our people in and seeing what is happening first hand will give us a view of things that we might not get waiting for others to provide information.

I'd also guess we have better staff with more knowledge and training than the other countries involved. More expertise.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

dooBdoo — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:22:17 GMT

@Stray wrote:
@KathyPet wrote:
so, let Boeing send their people. They are a private company let them pay for it.
They can't conflict of interest

Yes, these investigations require someone objective... separate from the company. At any rate, I read that Boeing is sending their people along with the NTSB. (By the way, @KathyPet, you mentioned the FAA in your original post -- so far I haven't seen anything indicating they are involved in going to the crash site.) This is a sound investment in safety, in my opinion. I might complain about our federal money going toward other things, but not this.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Mominohio — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:19:36 GMT

@KathyPet wrote:
so, let Boeing send their people. They are a private company let them pay for it.

Something like this, is so much more worth our tax dollars than a huge number of other things we throw money at.

Just the intel that might be gained, and what might be learned to prevent future crashes is priceless.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

terrier3 — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:30:31 GMT

A few years ago. Flight 3407 went down in upstate NY, killing all onboard and one man in his home.

After extensive review, it turned out to be pilot error. The captain had flunked numerous tests to become a commercial pilot...passing finally and landing a job at this low cost carrier. The co-pilot was paid less than $18000 A YEAR to be a full time pilot - she was flying even though she was sleep deprived and had a bad cold. She had to moonlight as a clerk at a convenience store to pay her rent.The two of them broke every protocol - talking about personal things during the flight. She said (on the fight recorder) that she had had NO training on what to do with ice on the wings - even though they were flying in the winter into Buffalo! The pilot did the EXACT opposite of what he should have done in a stall situation - later it was discovered that was another training procedure not mandated to be taught.

The grieving families banded together and got meaningful changes made to training, experience and other issues involved in low cost commuter airlines.

Now, more than 5 years later, the airlines are STILL fighting the new rules - and look to gut them. They just won't give up cutting corners to save money. They pay co-pilots 18K a year and full captains about 35K - and complain that increasing experience requirements makes it hard for them to recruit pilots!

Believe it or not - they want to go back to a pilot needing only 150 hours of flight time to have a job...the new rules would be 1500 hours to be a captain.

This outrages me more than the money spent investigating crashes in other countries.

Re: Just wondering, who pays for this?

Stray — Sun, 20 Mar 2016 14:32:03 GMT

@Marp wrote:
The NTSB investigates and reports on all U.S. air carrier accidents, commuter and air taxi crashes, mid-air collisions, serious mishaps involving public use (government) aircraft and all fatal general aviation accidents. The NTSB also investigates accidents involving both civilian and military aircraft and crashes involving military aircraft where the functions of the FAA are at issue. Internationally, the NTSB investigates major accidents involving U.S. air carriers and U.S. manufactured airliners under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). The NTSB even investigates foreign air carrier crashes in U.S. possession and territories, such as the KAL 801 crash in Guam.

@Marp- as you pointed out the US is a member of ICAO and so is Russia; I believe it is mandated that they investigate the crash.