topic Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone in Community Chat

Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Deb1010yetagain — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 22:58:50 GMT

It's all over the news that the San Bernardino terrorist's phone is in the hands of the FBI and they need Apple to develop a way to unlock the passcode so they can access important communication information. Apple is refusing. What do you think?

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

dex — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:00:59 GMT

I think Apple should do their public safety duty.A judge has authorized this action.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

deepwaterdotter — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:06:21 GMT

Sounds like it might be a case for Apple's legal department.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Mominohio — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:10:00 GMT

This would seem like a no brainer. The deed was done, there is no question as to the phone's owners involvement, and if a judge has ordered it, it needs to be done.

This may contain information that could stop people that would do this same kind of harm or worse in the future.

Why do the simplest things seem so hard to get done sometimes?

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

scotnovel — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:13:59 GMT

@dex wrote:
I think Apple should do their public safety duty.A judge has authorized this action.

According to one article that I read, they said the reason they don't want to do this is to protect public safety. Apparently, according to Apple, they have no sympathy for terrorists but if they create a program that allows them to hack their users that will undermine all the security enhancement they have created to protect users. I guess assuming that cypercriminals will get ahold of the program and use it against millions.

I don't begin to actually understand all of the implications of this, but unfortunately, I don't think this is as simple as them doing their public safety duty. I think this one will end up in the appeals courts and maybe even the Supreme Court at some point.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

ladyroxanne — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:15:03 GMT

how dare apple say no to the federal government especially when it concerns domestic terrorists. shame on them!

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

sharlee — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:15:55 GMT

@Mominohio wrote:
This would seem like a no brainer. The deed was done, there is no question as to the phone's owners involvement, and if a judge has ordered it, it needs to be done.

This may contain information that could stop people that would do this same kind of harm or worse in the future.

Why do the simplest things seem so hard to get done sometimes?

Because what can seem simple isn't always. Some of the finest legal minds in the country are very divided on this.

Apple is essentially being asked to create a sort of "master key" that could be used on anybody's iphone, not just those belonging to terrorists.

And for my money, the whole "create the hacking software, use it once and destroy it" notion is naive in the extreme - the genie never goes back into the bottle.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

MaggieMack — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:18:08 GMT

Apple's refusal has something to do with not wanting to establish a precedent, bringing China and Russia into their argument.

But the FBI only wants this one phone unlocked, and it was obviously used in the horrific crime. I hope Apple works with them behind the scenes and just carries out this refusal for global public consumption.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

chrystaltree — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:18:59 GMT

I think Apple should do the right thing, the moral thing, the responsible thing and develop a way to unlock that phone. I cannot believe they are refusing and they can't even come up with a valid reason for refusing.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Kachina624 — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:19:53 GMT

It's not just a matter of some Apple guru unlocking this one phone. Apple would have to put its engineers to work developing a software program to unlock not only this phone but potentially others down the line. Currently no software exists to unlock iPhones. They're afraid if they do it once, there will be a barrage of requests from other law enforcement agencies. This then becomes a trust issue between Apple and it's customers. I think they're right to refuse.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

ChynnaBlue — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:23:22 GMT

@Deb1010yetagain wrote:
It's all over the news that the San Bernardino terrorist's phone is in the hands of the FBI and they need Apple to develop a way to unlock the passcode so they can access important communication information. Apple is refusing. What do you think?

Because currently they have no way to do that and would need to create some program that could. They are not refusing to do something like hand over a key they keep in a vault because they don't feel like it. And if they do create a backdoor, once created, that code could be used by not only the FBI, but also hackers, to cause harm to other users. It could give anyone access to any Apple device.

I don't know what the right answer here is, but I do know it's not as simple as just saying, "here's the key, go on in."

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

ChynnaBlue — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:25:01 GMT

@chrystaltree wrote:
I think Apple should do the right thing, the moral thing, the responsible thing and develop a way to unlock that phone. I cannot believe they are refusing and they can't even come up with a valid reason for refusing.

They have, you just didn't read them. This is what happens when people oversimplify an issue and post fragments of the story.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Buck-i-Nana — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:24:46 GMT

It is my understanding the phone is question is NOT one of the dead terrorists phones, but the phone of a suspected accomplice.

In addition, what is being asked for does NOT even exist at this point in time, therefore the government is actually attempted to direct a private corporation to create software for their use without any discussion even as to fair and reasonable costs (which is an actual requirement for the procurement of anything for government purposes).

Lastly, wasn't there a promise regarding the patriot act how it would never be misused and was necessary for our safety? Now even many who rabidly defended and voted for the patriot act have repeatedly tried to shut it down because of it's misuse.

If the government wants to hack that phone, then let the government experts work on the hack.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

chrystaltree — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:25:48 GMT

@sharlee wrote:
@Mominohio wrote:
This would seem like a no brainer. The deed was done, there is no question as to the phone's owners involvement, and if a judge has ordered it, it needs to be done.

This may contain information that could stop people that would do this same kind of harm or worse in the future.

Why do the simplest things seem so hard to get done sometimes?
Because what can seem simple isn't always. Some of the finest legal minds in the country are very divided on this.

Apple is essentially being asked to create a sort of "master key" that could be used on anybody's iphone, not just those belonging to terrorists.

And for my money, the whole "create the hacking software, use it once and destroy it" notion is naive in the extreme - the genie never goes back into the bottle.

Rubbish. The government isn't asking for the "key" they only want Apple to develop one for one specific phone. The "key" would be Apple's. Obviously, principal out weighs public safety for Apple. Way to go Apple!

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Buck-i-Nana — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:27:43 GMT

@chrystaltree wrote:
@sharlee wrote:
@Mominohio wrote:
This would seem like a no brainer. The deed was done, there is no question as to the phone's owners involvement, and if a judge has ordered it, it needs to be done.

This may contain information that could stop people that would do this same kind of harm or worse in the future.

Why do the simplest things seem so hard to get done sometimes?
Because what can seem simple isn't always. Some of the finest legal minds in the country are very divided on this.

Apple is essentially being asked to create a sort of "master key" that could be used on anybody's iphone, not just those belonging to terrorists.

And for my money, the whole "create the hacking software, use it once and destroy it" notion is naive in the extreme - the genie never goes back into the bottle.

Rubbish. The government isn't asking for the "key" they only want Apple to develop one for one specific phone. The "key" would be Apple's. Obviously, principal out weighs public safety for Apple. Way to go Apple!

There is no way to develop a "key" for a single phone. The key would be for the operating system, and actually would indeed set up a vulnerability in all phones.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

ChynnaBlue — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:31:24 GMT

@chrystaltree wrote:
@sharlee wrote:
@Mominohio wrote:
This would seem like a no brainer. The deed was done, there is no question as to the phone's owners involvement, and if a judge has ordered it, it needs to be done.

This may contain information that could stop people that would do this same kind of harm or worse in the future.

Why do the simplest things seem so hard to get done sometimes?
Because what can seem simple isn't always. Some of the finest legal minds in the country are very divided on this.

Apple is essentially being asked to create a sort of "master key" that could be used on anybody's iphone, not just those belonging to terrorists.

And for my money, the whole "create the hacking software, use it once and destroy it" notion is naive in the extreme - the genie never goes back into the bottle.

Rubbish. The government isn't asking for the "key" they only want Apple to develop one for one specific phone. The "key" would be Apple's. Obviously, principal out weighs public safety for Apple. Way to go Apple!

That's not how encryption works. Your opinion here is simply not based on fact.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

sharlee — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:32:21 GMT

Folks confused about this issue should google Tim Cook's open letter on the subject - he lays out Apple's concerns very lucidly and thoughtfully.

A thorny issue, indeed. And I'd bet six months' worth of paychecks that most of those shrieking for Apple to develop a methodology for unlocking iphones would be screaming "government overreach!" the first time it was used on a phone belonging to Joe Schmo from Cocomo.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Buck-i-Nana — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:36:03 GMT

@sharlee wrote:
Folks confused about this issue should google Tim Cook's open letter on the subject - he lays out Apple's concerns very lucidly and thoughtfully.

A thorny issue, indeed. And I'd bet six months' worth of paychecks that most of those shrieking for Apple to develop a methodology for unlocking iphones would be screaming "government overreach!" the first time it was used on a phone belonging to Joe Schmo from Cocomo.

Exactly!

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

MaggieMack — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:38:07 GMT

So, if I forget my pass code, I'm screwed. Apple has no way to get me into my phone. Oh, that's right, I also have finger print entry. Maybe the FBI should look into getting into the phone that way.

I am on the FBI's side on this one. If I were Tim Cook, I wouldn't want future terrorist related deaths on me and my refusal to help. In the big picture, it's only a matter of time before SOMEone figures this out, I just hope they're on our side.

Re: Apple, the FBI and unlocking a customer's phone

Wsmom — Wed, 17 Feb 2016 23:51:28 GMT

Initially I was outraged that Apple was fighting it. Then I read the article. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.