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    <title>topic Re: Do you think this is true? in Community Chat</title>
    <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1813120#M624309</link>
    <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/29/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Pashmina&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/29/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;SuiGeneris&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/29/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;SugarNSpice&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Sister Golden Hair&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;I'm sorry but that is a load of malarkey.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;EM&gt;"We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan."&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;I think this goes beyond the concept of "predestination," taking a hard nosedive into hard determinism, &lt;SPAN class="_Tgc"&gt;"a view on free will which holds that determinism is true, and that it is incompatible with free will, and, therefore, that free will does not exist." [Definition provided by google]&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;I don't believe in predestination at all. &lt;STRONG&gt;&lt;SPAN style="text-decoration: underline;"&gt;As I asked a poster on another thread, why bother looking both ways when you cross the street or locking your doors at night or driving safely if you think your life has all been laid out for you in advance?&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/STRONG&gt; There would be no need.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;Acting as the devil's advocate [pun intended], how do you know for certain if you didn't look both ways when you crossed the street . . . and . . . got hit by a car . . . that &lt;STRONG&gt;that&lt;/STRONG&gt; was or wasn't what God had "predestined" for your life. And, you didn't lock your door at night . . . and . . . got robbed (or worse) that &lt;STRONG&gt;that&lt;/STRONG&gt; was or wasn't predestined for your life.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;Or possibly, on the other hand, God had predestined that despite your lack of personal safety measures, He would save you in spite of yourself . . . no car would be coming when you crossed the street and no criminal would invade your unlocked house. That &lt;STRONG&gt;that&lt;/STRONG&gt; was what He had planned in advance for you.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;How do you know which outcome He has planned for you from the beginning of time? And, how is free will a component of what God has predestined for your life? Those are really difficult questions, but I don't think disbelieving that predestination exists would bode well for any Bible-believing Christian:&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN id="en-NIV-28146" class="text Rom-8-29"&gt;Romans 8:29-30 - &lt;EM&gt;For those God foreknew he also &lt;SPAN style="text-decoration: underline;"&gt;predestined&lt;/SPAN&gt; to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;EM&gt;&lt;SPAN id="en-NIV-28147" class="text Rom-8-30"&gt;And those he &lt;SPAN style="text-decoration: underline;"&gt;predestined&lt;/SPAN&gt;, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN class="text Rom-8-30"&gt;In&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;SPAN class="text Rom-8-30"&gt;Christianity, it's called the Ordo Salutis (The Order of Salvation):&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;SPAN&gt;election, foreknowledge, &lt;STRONG&gt;predestination&lt;/STRONG&gt;, redemption, regeneration, justification, sanctification, glorification. Most Christians believe predestination is essential to one's salvation.&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN class="text Rom-8-30"&gt;&lt;BR /&gt;&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt;</description>
    <pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:05:50 GMT</pubDate>
    <dc:creator>SuiGeneris</dc:creator>
    <dc:date>2015-03-29T23:05:50Z</dc:date>
    <item>
      <title>Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812748#M624213</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN style="color: #333333; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.3466663360596px;"&gt; "There can be no good without evil."&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:47:32 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812748#M624213</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T01:47:32Z</dc:date>
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      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812753#M624215</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Why can't there be good without evil? We may recognize good more once we have experienced evil.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:52:23 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812753#M624215</guid>
      <dc:creator>croemer</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T01:52:23Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812758#M624217</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Some good thought provoking thoughts......&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:55:50 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812758#M624217</guid>
      <dc:creator>Nancy Drew</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T01:55:50Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812763#M624219</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Does one have to taste poison in order to know it kills? I don't think so.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:01:10 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812763#M624219</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:01:10Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812768#M624221</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;How can we know something is good if we don't know its opposite?  Where do we get the idea that something is good if we have nothing to compare it with?&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:05:33 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812768#M624221</guid>
      <dc:creator>rarejan</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:05:33Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812773#M624223</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="" quote_author=""&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;rarejan&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;How can we know something is good if we don't know its opposite? Where do we get the idea that something is good if we have nothing to compare it with?&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;So you are saying there will always be evil in the world for that very reason?&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:07:35 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812773#M624223</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:07:35Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812778#M624225</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;I think that I can find/recognize good on my own, without having the opposite around to 'remind' me.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:10:54 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812778#M624225</guid>
      <dc:creator>ROMARY</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:10:54Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812783#M624227</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;There can be good without evil.......I don't need snakes hanging around to make me be able to recognize angels lol.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:12:32 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812783#M624227</guid>
      <dc:creator>jessa</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:12:32Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812788#M624229</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;For what it's worth, I can't think of a major religion that doesn't recognize the existence of good and evil and a struggle between them.  Evil seems to have been here since the beginning.......and seems to hold an alluring fascination for us humans.  We just can't leave it alone.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:19:00 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812788#M624229</guid>
      <dc:creator>goodstuff</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:19:00Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812794#M624231</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;GoodStuff&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;For what it's worth, I can't think of a major religion that doesn't recognize the existence of good and evil and a struggle between them. Evil seems to have been here since the beginning.......and seems to hold an alluring fascination for us humans. We just can't leave it alone.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;But whose fault is that? Wasn't it man's to begin with? Wasn't it Adam and Eve who sinned and disobeyed? What if Adam and Eve had not sinned? Where would we be today? Would evil exist without sin?&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:21:45 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812794#M624231</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:21:45Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812799#M624233</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Pashmina&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;GoodStuff&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;For what it's worth, I can't think of a major religion that doesn't recognize the existence of good and evil and a struggle between them. Evil seems to have been here since the beginning.......and seems to hold an alluring fascination for us humans. We just can't leave it alone.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;But whose fault is that? Wasn't it man's to begin with? Wasn't it Adam and Eve who sinned and disobeyed? What if Adam and Eve had not sinned? Where would we be today? Would evil exist without sin?&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;EXCELLENT Pashmina!&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:24:16 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812799#M624233</guid>
      <dc:creator>jessa</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:24:16Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812804#M624235</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;No. &lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:54:12 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812804#M624235</guid>
      <dc:creator>melfie</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T02:54:12Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812809#M624237</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Pashmina&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;GoodStuff&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;For what it's worth, I can't think of a major religion that doesn't recognize the existence of good and evil and a struggle between them. Evil seems to have been here since the beginning.......and seems to hold an alluring fascination for us humans. We just can't leave it alone.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;But whose fault is that? Wasn't it man's to begin with? Wasn't it Adam and Eve who sinned and disobeyed? What if Adam and Eve had not sinned? Where would we be today? Would evil exist without sin?&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;According to the Bible, Satan was created by God.  He was created as a Cherub.  Before God created man, Satan turned against God and took many angels with him in his rebellion, so no, it was not man who was the first to sin.  Again, according to the Bible, it was Satan who deceived Eve and led her and Adam into sin.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 03:17:03 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812809#M624237</guid>
      <dc:creator>Buck-i-Nana</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T03:17:03Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812814#M624239</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Pashmina&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;&lt;SPAN style="color: #333333; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.3466663360596px;"&gt; "There can be no good without evil."&lt;/SPAN&gt;&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;i think it's true..........without it's direct polar opposite, you have no point of reference...................................raven&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 03:58:02 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812814#M624239</guid>
      <dc:creator>raven-blackbird</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T03:58:02Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812818#M624241</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;I can say that we wouldn't be able to truly appreciate the good without juxtaposing it against evil.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 03:58:13 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812818#M624241</guid>
      <dc:creator>feline groovy</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T03:58:13Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812823#M624243</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 04:51:58 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812823#M624243</guid>
      <dc:creator>Sister Golden Hair</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T04:51:58Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812828#M624245</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Sister Golden Hair&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;We wouldn't even be discussing this if it wasn't God's plan.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;I don't believe that for a second! It is not God's will that people suffer and die or do terrible things to one another.  We were created with free will, that is what got us where we are today, not God's will.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:51:11 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812828#M624245</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T21:51:11Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812832#M624246</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;Evil can bring out the good in us or the good can bring out the evil in us.  Checks and balances.  You can't have one without the other.&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:55:23 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812832#M624246</guid>
      <dc:creator>Preds</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T21:55:23Z</dc:date>
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    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812837#M624248</link>
      <description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Buck-i-Nana&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;Pashmina&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;SPAN class="quote_author"&gt;On 3/27/2015 &lt;STRONG&gt;GoodStuff&lt;/STRONG&gt; said:&lt;/SPAN&gt; &lt;P&gt;For what it's worth, I can't think of a major religion that doesn't recognize the existence of good and evil and a struggle between them. Evil seems to have been here since the beginning.......and seems to hold an alluring fascination for us humans. We just can't leave it alone.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;But whose fault is that? Wasn't it man's to begin with? Wasn't it Adam and Eve who sinned and disobeyed? What if Adam and Eve had not sinned? Where would we be today? Would evil exist without sin?&lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;According to the Bible, Satan was created by God. He was created as a Cherub. Before God created man, Satan turned against God and took many angels with him in his rebellion, so no, it was not man who was the first to sin. Again, according to the Bible, it was Satan who deceived Eve and led her and Adam into sin.&lt;/P&gt; &lt;P&gt; &lt;/P&gt; &lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt; &lt;P&gt;I meant the first humans to sin. Adam and Eve could have resisted Satan and if they did they would still be alive today. God would have destroyed Satan and his demons right off the bat because he would have had no human followers&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 21:56:31 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812837#M624248</guid>
      <dc:creator>Pashmina_1</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T21:56:31Z</dc:date>
    </item>
    <item>
      <title>Re: Do you think this is true?</title>
      <link>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812842#M624250</link>
      <description>&lt;P&gt;In defense of Eve ... If you've never faced evil, how do you know how to defend yourself?&lt;/P&gt;</description>
      <pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2015 22:10:12 GMT</pubDate>
      <guid>https://community.qvc.com/t5/Community-Chat/Do-you-think-this-is-true/m-p/1812842#M624250</guid>
      <dc:creator>Preds</dc:creator>
      <dc:date>2015-03-28T22:10:12Z</dc:date>
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