topic Re: Is this a common work experience? in Community Chat

Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:03:11 GMT

My daughter works in a fast food restaurant, and has been recently been promoted to be a manager.

Because of this, they have required her to take a few classes for certifications. Like state certification for food safety, etc.

Last week, she spent 8 hours in class and about 3 1/2 hours commuting to this class. Now they told her she will not be paid for her time, only the cost of the class.

They also told her they will not give her salary increase during her training period. They said that only when she fully functioned as a manager would they give her that pay.

This has certainly not been my experience in the workplace. I have always been paid for mandatory classes outside my workplace. I was also paid whatever salary my position said it did.

She is not going to make anything of it. Obviously they must be able to do this.

I have to admit being shocked by this. Is this common practice?

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

KathyPet — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:09:57 GMT

No this is wrong. if this class was required by the company as part of her job requirements she MUST be paid for the time she spent in the class but not for the commute time although she should get mileage expense for the use of her car. it amazes me how many supervisors, managers are totally ignorant of the law.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:11:04 GMT

Is your daughter currently working on salary or is she still paid by the hour?

Re: Is this a common work experience?

NoelSeven — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:11:20 GMT

From what I get by way of DD and friends, they are paid for taking mandatory classes or any type of meeting.

They are not paid for commute time.

No salary increase during training.

What is most popular is to hire people for a probationary period (up to 6 months) and then let them go before full benefits can be paid, or to hire for limited-time jobs for the same reason.

It's awful, imo.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

lulu2 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:14:44 GMT

I never worked it fast food but when I was teaching, I was reimbursed for courses, but not paid for my time. We would not have been hired for a position unless we had completed the requirements. Advancement on the salary guide would only take place the semester after coursework was completed.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

CelticCrafter — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:15:29 GMT

My daughter is a manager for one of the Darden concepts and when she accepted the position, she was paid the full managers salary she agreed to during her three months of training time.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

VioletEyes — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:16:07 GMT

Hyacinth, didn't they explain to her prior to this advancement what the requirements would be and what she would be paid for?

I think it is unfair but unfortunately, businesses today can be ruthless....

Congratulations, though, to your daughter for a job well done.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:16:15 GMT

Here is the criteria for payment according to the Dept of Labor.

<h2>Criteria for Payment</h2>

The Department of Labor has four criteria to ascertain if training is reimbursable to an employee. The first variable regards the time of the training. If attendance is outside the employee's normal working hours then the employer may not be liable. Another important question for employers is whether attendance is voluntary and additionally, if the employee is performing any work during the training. If the employee is voluntarily attending training, not working during the training, and the training does not specifically address the job, then the company does not have to pay the employee for this time.

I think it is best that you call the Dept of Labor in your state to get the best information.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:21:06 GMT

On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
Is your daughter currently working on salary or is she still paid by the hour?

She is still an hourly employee.

The pay increase is per hour. But, she hasn't received it yet.

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:22:06 GMT

On 3/10/2015 SoftRaindrops said:
Hyacinth, didn't they explain to her prior to this advancement what the requirements would be and what she would be paid for?

I think it is unfair but unfortunately, businesses today can be ruthless....

Congratulations, though, to your daughter for a job well done.

No, they didn't tell her any of this!

They are not big on information!

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:26:04 GMT

On 3/10/2015 NoelSeven said:
From what I get by way of DD and friends, they are paid for taking mandatory classes or any type of meeting.

They are not paid for commute time.

No salary increase during training.

What is most popular is to hire people for a probationary period (up to 6 months) and then let them go before full benefits can be paid, or to hire for limited-time jobs for the same reason.

It's awful, imo.

I didn't expect her commute time to be paid. It added up to us having to take her and pick her up from the train station.

More than an hour each way on the train, plus the expense of the train. She didn't want to pay downtown parking fees! Since she has had spondyloarthritis, she has difficulty walking so many blocks like she used to (not their problem, I know) from the train to the class building.

They will reimburse her about $150 for the class, but not the whole day out of her life to take it. Seems crummy to me.

I guess I thought once you were transferred to a position, you got the pay that went with it. At least, that's my experience.

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:26:44 GMT

On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
Is your daughter currently working on salary or is she still paid by the hour?

She is still an hourly employee.

The pay increase is per hour. But, she hasn't received it yet.

Hyacinth

Unless we have someone who works at the Dept of Labor here, I think for the most part you will be getting peoples opinions. It does not sound right to me that she would not get paid for training but I do know there are certain situations where this is legal. It is best that you or your daughter just call the Dept of Labor and thoroughly explain the situation that way if she is entitled to pay, she can tell her company that she has contacted the Dept of Labor and this is what they told her.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

VioletEyes — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:27:27 GMT

On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 SoftRaindrops said:
Hyacinth, didn't they explain to her prior to this advancement what the requirements would be and what she would be paid for?

I think it is unfair but unfortunately, businesses today can be ruthless....

Congratulations, though, to your daughter for a job well done.

No, they didn't tell her any of this!

They are not big on information!

Hyacinth

Very unfair! And as a mom, myself, this would be very upsetting for me. I know how hard your daughter worked to get this job and she certainly deserved to be told she wouldn't be getting paid for the training period.

Maybe next time she should ask for everything in writing. Her employer should make it very clear, what is paid and not paid.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:29:53 GMT

On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 NoelSeven said:
From what I get by way of DD and friends, they are paid for taking mandatory classes or any type of meeting.

They are not paid for commute time.

No salary increase during training.

What is most popular is to hire people for a probationary period (up to 6 months) and then let them go before full benefits can be paid, or to hire for limited-time jobs for the same reason.

It's awful, imo.

I didn't expect her commute time to be paid. It added up to us having to take her and pick her up from the train station.

More than an hour each way on the train, plus the expense of the train. She didn't want to pay downtown parking fees! Since she has had spondyloarthritis, she has difficulty walking so many blocks like she used to (not their problem, I know) from the train to the class building.

They will reimburse her about $150 for the class, but not the whole day out of her life to take it. Seems crummy to me.

I guess I thought once you were transferred to a position, you got the pay that went with it. At least, that's my experience.

Hyacinth

If she needs to take these classes to be qualified as a manager, she probably won't be considered a manager until they are completed therefore not getting paid as a manager until she is done with them.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:31:42 GMT

On 3/10/2015 SoftRaindrops said:
On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 SoftRaindrops said:
Hyacinth, didn't they explain to her prior to this advancement what the requirements would be and what she would be paid for?

I think it is unfair but unfortunately, businesses today can be ruthless....

Congratulations, though, to your daughter for a job well done.

No, they didn't tell her any of this!

They are not big on information!

Hyacinth

Very unfair! And as a mom, myself, this would be very upsetting for me. I know how hard your daughter worked to get this job and she certainly deserved to be told she wouldn't be getting paid for the training period.

Maybe next time she should ask for everything in writing. Her employer should make it very clear, what is paid and not paid.

I agree with this. If she is working for the same company that she did in some of the OPs prior posts it does sound as though they have tried to take advantage of her daughter several times in the past.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:32:24 GMT

On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
Here is the criteria for payment according to the Dept of Labor.
<h2>Criteria for Payment</h2>
The Department of Labor has four criteria to ascertain if training is reimbursable to an employee. The first variable regards the time of the training. If attendance is outside the employee's normal working hours then the employer may not be liable. Another important question for employers is whether attendance is voluntary and additionally, if the employee is performing any work during the training. If the employee is voluntarily attending training, not working during the training, and the training does not specifically address the job, then the company does not have to pay the employee for this time.

I think it is best that you call the Dept of Labor in your state to get the best information.

She only took the class because they told her she HAD to.

They did not put her on the work schedule that day, but never put her as gone to a class either. They just didn't schedule her.

She didn't do her actual work because she was in class.

I would say the training specifically addressed the job. It was on food safety and sanitation.

She paid the class fee and they will reimburse her that fee but not for her whole day.

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:34:42 GMT

On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 NoelSeven said:
From what I get by way of DD and friends, they are paid for taking mandatory classes or any type of meeting.

They are not paid for commute time.

No salary increase during training.

What is most popular is to hire people for a probationary period (up to 6 months) and then let them go before full benefits can be paid, or to hire for limited-time jobs for the same reason.

It's awful, imo.

I didn't expect her commute time to be paid. It added up to us having to take her and pick her up from the train station.

More than an hour each way on the train, plus the expense of the train. She didn't want to pay downtown parking fees! Since she has had spondyloarthritis, she has difficulty walking so many blocks like she used to (not their problem, I know) from the train to the class building.

They will reimburse her about $150 for the class, but not the whole day out of her life to take it. Seems crummy to me.

I guess I thought once you were transferred to a position, you got the pay that went with it. At least, that's my experience.

Hyacinth

If she needs to take these classes to be qualified as a manager, she probably won't be considered a manager until they are completed therefore not getting paid as a manager until she is done with them.

Well, that makes a certain kind of (perverted!) sense.

However, I still can't get past the not paying for the whole day to take the class.

This company is not very good to their employees.

Hyacinth

Re: Is this a common work experience?

NoelSeven — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:34:57 GMT

On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
Here is the criteria for payment according to the Dept of Labor.
<h2>Criteria for Payment</h2>
The Department of Labor has four criteria to ascertain if training is reimbursable to an employee. The first variable regards the time of the training. If attendance is outside the employee's normal working hours then the employer may not be liable. Another important question for employers is whether attendance is voluntary and additionally, if the employee is performing any work during the training. If the employee is voluntarily attending training, not working during the training, and the training does not specifically address the job, then the company does not have to pay the employee for this time.

I think it is best that you call the Dept of Labor in your state to get the best information.

She only took the class because they told her she HAD to.

They did not put her on the work schedule that day, but never put her as gone to a class either. They just didn't schedule her.

She didn't do her actual work because she was in class.

I would say the training specifically addressed the job. It was on food safety and sanitation.

She paid the class fee and they will reimburse her that fee but not for her whole day.

Hyacinth

That just doesn't surprise me. Most businesses seem to function by getting away with whatever they can.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

Irshgrl31201 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:40:04 GMT

On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 Irshgrl31201 said:
On 3/10/2015 hyacinth003 said:
On 3/10/2015 NoelSeven said:
From what I get by way of DD and friends, they are paid for taking mandatory classes or any type of meeting.

They are not paid for commute time.

No salary increase during training.

What is most popular is to hire people for a probationary period (up to 6 months) and then let them go before full benefits can be paid, or to hire for limited-time jobs for the same reason.

It's awful, imo.

I didn't expect her commute time to be paid. It added up to us having to take her and pick her up from the train station.

More than an hour each way on the train, plus the expense of the train. She didn't want to pay downtown parking fees! Since she has had spondyloarthritis, she has difficulty walking so many blocks like she used to (not their problem, I know) from the train to the class building.

They will reimburse her about $150 for the class, but not the whole day out of her life to take it. Seems crummy to me.

I guess I thought once you were transferred to a position, you got the pay that went with it. At least, that's my experience.

Hyacinth

If she needs to take these classes to be qualified as a manager, she probably won't be considered a manager until they are completed therefore not getting paid as a manager until she is done with them.

Well, that makes a certain kind of (perverted!) sense.

However, I still can't get past the not paying for the whole day to take the class.

This company is not very good to their employees.

Hyacinth

It really doesn't sound like they are. Please call the DOL to find out for sure. I would not let them off the hook for this. Do you mind sharing what fast food restaurant your daughter works for. If you do not wish to, I totally understand.

Re: Is this a common work experience?

hyacinth003 — Tue, 10 Mar 2015 22:40:13 GMT

I think the economy being poor and jobs being scarce has led to some companies feeling they can do whatever they want and the employee will TAKE it.

And, they are probably right.

What they are doing may be right inside the law, but it is not right.

I don't see improvement any time soon. In a good economy, they would be forced to be better because they would need the employee more.

Hyacinth