topic Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication' in Community Chat

Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

shesallthat — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:02:05 GMT

An official cause of death has been ruled in the Joan Rivers investigation.

On Thursday, the New York City Office of Chief Medical Examiner issued the following statement: "The cause of Ms. Rivers's death is anoxic encephalopathy due to hypoxic arrest during laryngoscopy and upper gastrointestinal endoscopy with Propofol sedation for evaluation of voice changes and gastroesophageal reflux disease. The manner of death is therapeutic complication."

The OCME continued, "The classification of a death as a therapeutic complication means that the death resulted from a predictable complication of medical therapy."

Basically, the legendary comedian was sedated with the drug Propofol when she was going in for a procedure to treat voice changes and acid reflux. Anoxic encephalopathy means that Rivers's brain was deprived of oxygen for a prolonged period of time, which sent her into cardiac arrest. Joan was then rushed to Mount Sinai Hospital, where she remained in a medically induced coma, but was unable to breathe her own. On Sept. 4 she was taken off life support and passed away at the age of 81.

Joan's family had no comment on today's ruling. "We continue to be saddened by our tragic loss and grateful for the enormous outpouring of love and support from around the world," Melissa said in a statement.

Both the New York Police Department and the New York State Department of Health are looking into the circumstances surrounding Joan's death, but neither has issued a comment about the status of their investigations.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/medical-examiner--joan-rivers-died-from-a--predictable-complication--during-surgery-184817751.html

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

YorkieonmyPillow — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:06:40 GMT

It seems unbelievable to me that this happened; yet, I know it did. This really angers me but what can one do? I feel so sorry for Melissa and Cooper.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

pepes mom — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:18:09 GMT

Every time I've had an endoscopy, I've been attached to a heart monitor and a pulse oximeter. I would certainly hope that Ms. Rivers was treated in the same fashion.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

Elstongunn — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:23:23 GMT

I'm still a little fuzzy on this: what caused the lack of oxygen to the brain that resulted in cardiac arrest? Did her larynx seize up?

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

chrystaltree — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:27:10 GMT

I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

ROMARY — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:27:43 GMT

Very sad. Well, at the very, very least, at least we will have questions and suggestions re: similar procedures. Knowledge is everything. Bring in our notepads, ask questions, etc.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

YorkieonmyPillow — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:36:04 GMT

On 10/16/2014 chrystaltree said:
I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

I read it the exact opposite way: a "predictable complication" would mean the doctors should've been aware that this could happen, and been prepared in the case of. Meaning, it should NOT have happened.

Yes, ktylnam, she had a laryngospasm. I don't believe she had consented to the biopsy that was done.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

straykatz — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:46:06 GMT

No matter who you are, your age, gender, etc there are certain risks involved anytime you are put under.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

croemer — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 21:51:26 GMT

On 10/16/2014 YorkieonmyPillow said:
On 10/16/2014 chrystaltree said:
I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

I read it the exact opposite way: a "predictable complication" would mean the doctors should've been aware that this could happen, and been prepared in the case of. Meaning, it should NOT have happened.

Yes, ktylnam, she had a laryngospasm. I don't believe she had consented to the biopsy that was done.

Thats how I read it too.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

chrystaltree — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:03:14 GMT

On 10/16/2014 ROMARY said:
Very sad. Well, at the very, very least, at least we will have questions and suggestions re: similar procedures. Knowledge is everything. Bring in our notepads, ask questions, etc.

You really don't get this at all. Bring all the notepads you want, write everything down. Underline it in red. The fact is that if you ultimately decide to have a surgical or invasive diagnositc procedure there is no 100% guarantee that nothing unfortunate will happen. All procedures, even a few stiches on cut finger, come with risks. The human body is fragile and no one, not even the best doctors in the entire universe can predict every outcome. It can't be done. Bad things can happen even when everyone does everything right. I think the lesson to be learned here is that the elderly, regardless of how healthy and vibrant they are; should not have procedures done in outpatient surgery centers. They should be in hospitals where immediate care and treatment can be given in case something should go wrong.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

shesallthat — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:05:56 GMT

On 10/16/2014 YorkieonmyPillow said:
On 10/16/2014 chrystaltree said:
I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

I read it the exact opposite way: a "predictable complication" would mean the doctors should've been aware that this could happen, and been prepared in the case of. Meaning, it should NOT have happened.

Yes, ktylnam, she had a laryngospasm. I don't believe she had consented to the biopsy that was done.

that is exactly how i read it,too!

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

YorkieonmyPillow — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:10:58 GMT

On 10/16/2014 shesallthat said:
On 10/16/2014 YorkieonmyPillow said:
On 10/16/2014 chrystaltree said:
I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

I read it the exact opposite way: a "predictable complication" would mean the doctors should've been aware that this could happen, and been prepared in the case of. Meaning, it should NOT have happened.

Yes, ktylnam, she had a laryngospasm. I don't believe she had consented to the biopsy that was done.

that is exactly how i read it,too!

It has to be.

Something predictable is an event that can be foreseen.

An unpredictable complication would be something that happens out of the blue with no reasonable expectation that it could occur......which clearly, isn't the case here. I see a lot of liability here, to put it mildly.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

Lindsays Grandma — Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:16:20 GMT

What is interesting about this is that during an interview Joan had she was asked if all the surgeries she has had scared her, her response was, "No, what scares me is the anesthesia." I had quite a few surgeries but never worried about it but now I'm beginning to feel uncomfortable since I am going under again on the 27th for my second cataract surgery.

I loved Joan Rivers and it is just so sad that died from the one thing that scared her. I still find it hard to believe she is gone and it was hard to watch the recent showing of her jewelry on QVC.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

Shorty2U — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 02:49:27 GMT

I have more questions as to was she hooked up to proper monitoring? Yes I realize everytime we undergo a procedure anything can happen. But Id like to know more.

I feel so bad for her family! My prayers are with her daughter and grandson!

And, what happened to her is my worst nightmare. I HATE being put under and it worries me more than the actual surgery. (I had a double discectomy in my spine, and breast cancer and worried about being put under more than the surgeries!).

Now I have to get hand surgery at one of those outpatient surgery places. I dont trust it. I think they should do ALL procedures and surgeries in a HOSPITAL!

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

Charming1 — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:57:47 GMT

From a CNN article...comment from pathologist and surgeon Bill Lloyd.

"The unanswered question is why they did not do a combat (tracheotomy)?" he asked. "You've seen in the James Bond movies. You take a ballpoint pen and puncture the thyroid cartilage and create an emergency airway for her. Of course, they would do it with sterile instruments. ... And, after minute two, did anybody say, We need to start doing some CPR for her?"

The complete article is at CNN.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

Financialgrl — Fri, 17 Oct 2014 17:54:30 GMT

I don't get it - I live in VA and BF and I see the same gastroenterologist. He is older and has Medicare. If I have a colonoscopy or endoscopy mine can be done in doctors office and there is an anastesiologist on staff.

But bc BF is older and on Medicare, we were told beginning 2 years ago that his procedures are required to be performed in a hospital setting. They said it's a requirement, not something they just do - so it perhaps shows differences in state requirements. To meet that requirement, our area has a medical building buttressing up to the hospital with an entrance accessing directly into the ER and they have made the whole bottom floor of the center into individual suites to be used by doctors for just such procedures. If anything happens, docs from ER can get right there, and no waiting for an ambulance, etc. I find it hard to believe an 80+ y/o anywhere is allowed to have this procedure done in just a doctors office.

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

hyacinth003 — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 01:59:49 GMT

I do not know the details of any of this.

However, whatever happened may have also occurred in a hospital. There are no guarantees she could have been successfully treated there either. Yes, the odds would be better, but no guarantee.

All procedures carry some risk.

Hyacinth

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

lizzief — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 02:19:42 GMT

I don't think the speculation will ever end because this report was very inconclusive. I'm actually surprised it didn't mention anything about what was wrong with Joan's throat, since that's why she had the procedure!

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

raven-blackbird — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 03:44:28 GMT

On 10/17/2014 lizzief said: I don't think the speculation will ever end because this report was very inconclusive. I'm actually surprised it didn't mention anything about what was wrong with Joan's throat, since that's why she had the procedure!

it sounds like she had it done because of changes to her voice..........in her line of business, her voice/ability to speak is everything..........................................raven

Re: Medical Examiner: Joan Rivers Died From a 'Predictable Complication'

151949 — Sat, 18 Oct 2014 04:16:48 GMT

On 10/16/2014 YorkieonmyPillow said:
On 10/16/2014 chrystaltree said:
I'm surprised by the finding. The report seems to be saying that the doctor and the facility acted appropriately and Joan's death was due to the normal risks associated with anesthesia. Which certainly could be the case. Anyone who has ever had any type of surgery or any invasive testing knows the risks, that's why we sign consent forms. It's just that things like this are so rare that we assume they never happen.

I read it the exact opposite way: a "predictable complication" would mean the doctors should've been aware that this could happen, and been prepared in the case of. Meaning, it should NOT have happened.

Yes, ktylnam, she had a laryngospasm. I don't believe she had consented to the biopsy that was done.

The coroners report says nothing about laryngospasm or biopsy so what is your source that this was done. Only facts please - no supposition . I am sure the possibility of what actually happened was covered in her OR permit - which she would have signed before the procedure.