topic Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help in Community Chat

Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

focksie — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:30:57 GMT

I tend to overuse and probably misuse the word "that" so I'm hoping you can give me a rule, which I can't seem to find on-line. Here is a sample sentence:

The doctor explained that it was probably caused by a virus and that it would resolve on its own, but that I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin.

I think I can take out the second "that." (Oh, but in the previous sentence, should there be a "that" after think? I think that I can take out the second "that." lol

The doctor explained that it was probably caused by a virus and would resolve on its own, but that I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin.

What is the rule, please?

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

depglass — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:35:40 GMT

Boy, you have a good one here. I can read the whole sentence with no that's and it makes sense, also. The spelling program put in the apostrophe.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

brii — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:38:19 GMT

I don't know about "rules," but you can take them all out and still have the sentence make sense.

"The doctor explained it was probably caused by a virus and would resolve on its own, but I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin."

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

chrystaltree — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:39:24 GMT

I don't know the rule, I don't know if there is a rule. I'd go with....

The doctor explained that it was probably caused by a virus that would resolve on its own; but, I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

sunala — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:41:55 GMT

I just checked my Strunk & White, and there is nothing on "that." The only rule they have is on the difference between "that" and "which," which is another story!

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

sidsmom — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:42:35 GMT

""that"" is just a fancy ""like""..! Read it aloud with ""like"" & you sound like a Valley Girl! ITA with brii....remove all 'that' and remove second 'it'.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

scotttie — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:46:21 GMT

I don't have a rule of thumb on this. However, I agree you could take out all the "thats" and the sentence sounds less "conversational" .

Agree with sidsmom also about the second "it".

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

sunshine45 — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 15:54:46 GMT

The doctor explained that it was probably caused by a virus and that it would resolve on its own, but that I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin.

i would probably write it like this.....

The doctor explained it was probably caused by a virus and that it would resolve on its own. He also recommended I take aspirin if I wanted to speed up my recovery.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

sidsmom — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:02:29 GMT

If "it" was established in the previous sentence, you refer to it once in each sentence.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

focksie — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:03:56 GMT

Thanks everyone. I guess the fewer the "thats," the better it sounds. I'm writing something and realized (that) I was using them very inconsistently, so I thought (that) there might be a rule.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

LilacTree — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:06:56 GMT

On 7/30/2014 brii said:
I don't know about "rules," but you can take them all out and still have the sentence make sense.

"The doctor explained it was probably caused by a virus and would resolve on its own, but I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin."

Bingo! Way to go brii !!

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

Moonlady — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:12:01 GMT

There are a number of ways to reconfigure that sentence without all of those "thats." In many cases the word "that" is used to make clear that the subject (or another party) is not being quoted. For example, Dad said that.... instead of Dad said, "________."

Also, "that" can serve as any number of parts of speech in one sentence, so it's not uncommon to see it repeated. That's why most people don't even notice how frequently it appears.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

bells4me — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:12:46 GMT

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

occasionalrain — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 16:19:06 GMT

The first that is needed, the rest aren't.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

Kachina624 — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 02:58:00 GMT

None of the ""thats"" are needed in the sentence you used.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

sylviahomeatlast — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:02:30 GMT

take out. the ""that's"". put a period after the word ""own"" and begin a new sentence with ""I could"". my little suggestion--

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

dooBdoo — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:12:16 GMT

On 7/30/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 7/30/2014 brii said:
I don't know about "rules," but you can take them all out and still have the sentence make sense.

"The doctor explained it was probably caused by a virus and would resolve on its own, but I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin."

Bingo! Way to go brii !!

This would be my suggestion, too. I'm guilty of overusing the word "that." I need to work on that . . .

Here's an in-depth explanation for anyone interested:

Omitting “That”

When you can and when you can’t.

(link goes to: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/omitting-%E2%80%9Cthat%E2%80%9D)

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

RainCityGirl — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 03:16:40 GMT

You are using "that" as the beginning of a series of noun clauses. At one time, it was considered important to keep things parallel throughout the sentence; hence all of the "thats" would have been included. However, it now is acceptable to leave out the second and third pronouns and keep the first one as the other "thats" are implied in the rest of the sentence. Sometimes, in this kind of series, it is acceptable to leave all the pronouns out, or to use some and not others. I personally would prefer your last example making the first noun clause compound and then repeat the "that" in the last noun clause which implies a slight change of direction.

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

Tinkrbl44 — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 06:36:33 GMT

Focksie, you need a "That Remover" .... LOL

Re: Attn. Grammarphiles - need help

LizAnne_1 — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:37:27 GMT

On 7/30/2014 dooBdoo said:
On 7/30/2014 Ford1224 said:
On 7/30/2014 brii said:
I don't know about "rules," but you can take them all out and still have the sentence make sense.

"The doctor explained it was probably caused by a virus and would resolve on its own, but I could speed up my recovery by taking aspirin."

Bingo! Way to go brii !!

This would be my suggestion, too. I'm guilty of overusing the word "that." I need to work on that . . .

Here's an in-depth explanation for anyone interested:

Omitting “That”

When you can and when you can’t.

(link goes to: http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/omitting-%E2%80%9Cthat%E2%80%9D)

Doo, thank you for that. Grammar and syntax are fascinating.

It's a pity kids don't diagram sentences anymore. It was kinda like math with words. I loved it!