topic Re: What do you think of this story? in Community Chat

What do you think of this story?

Shorty2U — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:09:35 GMT

Before reading this I will give you some back ground since this happened in my former hometown area and I have been following this online. The mom was 55, the 7 kids range in age from 12 to 36. She suffered from high blood pressure, bi polar, and anxiety. According to preliminary reports they don't know how she died yet but there is word that the prison NEVER gave her meds to her. To add- The father died in 2011 so he was not in the picture.

This story has saddened me. It is my opinion that CHILDREN who don't go to school should be punished NOT the mom or dad. In this case they lived in poverty and the mom didn't even drive or work. The neighbors say she was a nice friendly woman. LAWS are now trying to be changed so parents don't go to jail for truancy. I agree do you, after reading this story? And PS the way I understand the children are of course devastated and feel guilt that this happened because they didn't go to school.

A woman sentenced to two days in jail for not paying $2,000 in fines after her kids skipped school - died in her cell.

Guards at Berks County Jail in Pennsylvania found Eileen DiNino, 55, of Reading, unresponsive in her bunk bed on Saturday afternoon as they checked blood pressure for all the patients.

She was declared dead shortly after at a local hospital.

She had $2,000 in truancy fines and Judge Dean Patton had to give her jail time, reported the Reading Eagle, but she “should not have died alone in prison,” he said.

She had nine active cases and 55 citations between 1999 and last year, the Eagle wrote.

There’s no evidence indicating a suspicious death, investigators said, but they’re waiting on toxicology results.

An autopsy was inconclusive.

The Eagle reported that the majority of truancy cases deal with overwhelmed mothers.

“The people home taking care of the children are mothers,” Richard Guida, an ex-truancy lawyer told the Eagle. “And some of these kids are no angels. They’re teenagers and they’re sullen. But then mom ends up in court.”

The prison warden referred all questions by the paper to Berks County Commissioner Kevin Barnhardt, who is also the chairman of the prison board.

“This women died in prison - away from her family - and for what?” Barnhardt said. “What did she learn from this?”

Re: What do you think of this story?

pinkskates4 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:22:27 GMT

The story I read indicated what you said about her bi-polar etc., and said the prison didn't "administer" any meds to her, but it didn't say - or imply - that they withheld her meds.

I thought the meds comment was to indicate that they didn't do anything that might have caused her death.

Do you have info that they refused to allow her to take her meds?

Additionally she had 55 violations since 1999 and the judge had been trying to work with her. While he realized she was unable to pay the fine, he needed something to justify that and asked her for bills etc., and she did not cooperate with him (maybe due to her bi-polar or other problems). He reduced her sentence from 45 days to 48 hours - which would have wiped her slate clean. He, also, is opposed to the law requiring jail time as a final recourse when nothing else is working.

While her situation is indeed tragic, it is also sad that she had seven kids with all these truancy problems and seemed unable to cope with it. You wonder how the kids fared otherwise.

Re: What do you think of this story?

tansy — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:27:36 GMT

I hope this case forces a change in the laws, Shorty. To top it all off, her husband and the children's father died around the time things went truly south for the family.

Re: What do you think of this story?

pinkskates4 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:40:30 GMT

Another wrinkle to this, is that apparently states base funding on student population- and many base this on daily attendance - meaning that truancy costs the school state funding.

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/jun/27/chronically-absent-students-cost-county-schools-mi/

I read somewhere that this applies to Federal funds too.

This could inspire the schools to push for laws against truancy - with harsh consequences - for reasons other than just concern for the kids.

Re: What do you think of this story?

Q_spirit — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:43:10 GMT

my this is tragic. and complicated. i will read the full articles. so sad this is.

Re: What do you think of this story?

Shorty2U — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:46:40 GMT

Dagna I am not saying they deliberately denied her meds, I just read they hadn't given her the meds. Be it a mistake or whatnot is unknown. I guess as the investigation continues everything may come out.

Re: What do you think of this story?

MikafromTopeka — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:46:56 GMT

1999 was 15 years ago now so I would imagine most if not all of those 7 kids are adults by now. You would think that at least a few of them would have grown into decent enough human beings that they'd try to help their mom out of this mess instead of letting her go to jail over fines. **I've only heard bits and pieces of this story.

Re: What do you think of this story?

terrier3 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:49:54 GMT

I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

Re: What do you think of this story?

pinkskates4 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 18:53:05 GMT

On 6/14/2014 kaybee said:
1999 was 15 years ago now so I would imagine most if not all of those 7 kids are adults by now. You would think that at least a few of them would have grown into decent enough human beings that they'd try to help their mom out of this mess instead of letting her go to jail over fines. **I've only heard bits and pieces of this story.

Unless they didn't graduate and don't have jobs.

If they are working, of course, they should have helped her.

Re: What do you think of this story?

kingtut — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:15:52 GMT

On Dr. Phil yesterday there was a mother and aunt and grand mother and two teen age girls who were very wild and refused to go to school. The mother was told she was supposed to enforce them going but actually how can anyone do that. they need help.

Re: What do you think of this story?

herekitty_kitty — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:26:24 GMT

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

Re: What do you think of this story?

abbeythe 8th — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:29:26 GMT

The father died in 2011. The fines go back to 1999. It would seem this family was dysfunctional for a long time. She continued having children if her youngest is 12.

While it would seem that children who are chronically truant should be punished, (remember when they'd threatened you with reformed school) it is the parents or guardians who are responsible for getting minor children to school. The law doesn't look upon it differently than parents who does not make their children go to school.

Tragic story.

Re: What do you think of this story?

terrier3 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:30:22 GMT

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:
On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

Re: What do you think of this story?

herekitty_kitty — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:32:58 GMT

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:
On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

"Patton said he has lost sleep over her death. At the same time, he acknowledged that a short jail stint can sometimes "break the habit" of parents who'd rather party into the night than take their children to school the next day. The county started a program a few years ago that gives families 30 to 60 days to keep daily logs of each class and assignment. He estimated that the district truancy rate had dropped more than 30 percent."

if they don't want to be an active parent they shouldn't have children. the woman was living off the government. she was a stay at home mom. the least she could have done was be an active parent. stop blaming the court system. she put her self there.

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

Re: What do you think of this story?

terrier3 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:37:45 GMT

On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:
On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:

The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

This family was dysfunctional. The dad is dead. The mom has mental issues and I don't think she speaks or can read English very well either.

The system failed this entire family.

If you can get out of jail if you pay a fine - that is a two forms of justice - for the well off and for the poor. That is wrong.

Re: What do you think of this story?

Junebug54 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:38:00 GMT

So why have 7 kids if you can't take care of them?

Re: What do you think of this story?

Marienkaefer2 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:39:21 GMT

And maybe she was doing the best she could, under her circumstances.

It is easy for upper and middle class people to sit in judgment on lower income people and pontificate about parental duties.

Reading PA is a city with a VERY HIGH poverty rate, and all the accompanying issues that cone along with a decaying city.

This situation is NOT the core problem. It is a SYMPTOM of a much larger issue in our society, and that is poverty.

Fining the parents when they cannot pay and then jailing them is not going to motivate the children. If anything, it will make them more hostile to anything they perceive as being part of the establishment.

Re: What do you think of this story?

momma3gs — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:43:30 GMT

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
I don't see how fining parents will solve this problem.

PA jails many people for other strange fines. One guy was jailed for catching a large mouth bass during small mouth bass season.

In my county in NY, a woman was jailed for having two overdue library books. She had been stopped for having a taillight out and when the police found the warrant for her arrest, she offered to pay for the books - $85 total (including fines). The police told her it was too late to pay and she was brought to jail. They denied her insulin, even though she complained, and she had a stroke. She is now suing.

It costs MORE money to process these people owing civil fines, jail them, etc.

Then they have to deal with being criminals...who wants to hire people who served time in jail, even if it was only for a few days?

It affects poor people much more often and is a waste of time & money, IMO.

ITA. Jail time for unreturned library books, truant children, and catching a fish out of season is beyond ridiculous. IMO jail should be reserved for the most hardened and violent criminals. The Court system frequently punishes people with jail time when they have no money for attorneys, fines, etc. It's all about money. Judges are former lawyers - they want people to hire lawyers to represent them. If you're poor, you end up in jail. And now this mother of young children died in jail and her children are orphans. For what? There had to have been a better way to handle this situation.

Re: What do you think of this story?

herekitty_kitty — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:43:48 GMT

On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
On 6/14/2014 herekitty_kitty said:
On 6/14/2014 terrier3 said:
The mom wasn't jailed because her kids were truant...

She was jailed because she couldn't afford the fees that went with the truancy.

If she had money, she never would have been in that situation, no matter how poorly her children behaved.

There is a separate punishment for parents with money vs. poor parents.

That used to be called being in debtors' prison - they have been outlawed.

she would have had no fines to pay if she had been a active parent and made sure her children were attending school. now the children will live with the guilt. one more way this woman failed her children. it is a sad story. that is a long life to live with such guilt.

This family was dysfunctional. The dad is dead. The mom has mental issues and I don't think she speaks or can read English very well either.

The system failed this entire family.

If you can get out of jail if you pay a fine - that is a two forms of justice - for the well off and for the poor. That is wrong.

LOL the system failed her? the system didn't make her have 7 kids. they didn't hold her down and say "you will have 7 children!" she shouldn't have had so many children. that's on her.

Re: What do you think of this story?

terrier3 — Sat, 14 Jun 2014 19:44:23 GMT

On 6/14/2014 Junebug54 said:
So why have 7 kids if you can't take care of them?

Her husband died 3 years ago. I don't think she was prepared for that - who would be?

Perhaps they are Catholic and don't believe in BC? Who knows what their reasons are?

There are as many situations as there are families.

As a social worker, I have always tried to find a solution - you can't go back if people planned poorly, no matter what the reason.

When I had my son, I was married. My DH got a sports groupie pregnant and I ended up a single mom - nothing I had planned or anticipated.

I was lucky - I had a master's degree and a way to support us.

I don't fault people who find themselves in tough situations....remember, this mom is also bi-polar. It sounds as if she was overwhelmed by life (and depression).

I don't think jail for her because she is poor and no jail if she could have paid the fines is a fair or appropriate punishment.