topic Re: Can tornado walls protect us? in Community Chat

Can tornado walls protect us?

JustJules — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:15:10 GMT

I've heard some bizarre ideas before, but now I think I've heard it all. There is a scientist that is proposing the United States build "tornado walls", yes walls, in various parts of the country to supposedly protect us. I live in tornado alley and it has become quite the topic, mostly of jokes. They refer to it as the Great Wall of Kansas. This scientist suggests 3 separate walls; one built in North Dakota, one built along the state line between Kansas and Oklahoma, and another in southern Texas and Louisiana. Each of the walls would be 1,000 feet tall (keep in mind, the Chrysler Building in NY is 1,046' and the Eiffel Tower in Paris is 1,063') and would need to be 150 feet wide.

Aside from the ridiculous cost to build ($60 billion per 100 miles of wall), meteorologists and climatologists have serious concerns about what these walls would do to normal weather patterns in the country. They fear that the main central wall would cast shade over much of southern Kansas, causing a change in crop growing, and perhaps causing undo amounts of rain. While on the other hand, causing the southern states to have higher than normal temperatures.

So, would you want your tax money going towards building these walls?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/02/25/giant-walls-tornado-alley/5808887/

http://www.weather.com/news/tornado-central/tornado-wall-break-storms-zany-proposals-20140226

"One scientist thinks we can protect parts of the central USA from ferocious tornadoes by building several gigantic walls across Tornado Alley:

"If we build three east-west great walls in the American Midwest .... one in North Dakota, one along the border between Kansas and Oklahoma to the east, and the third one in south Texas and Louisiana, we will diminish the tornado threats in the Tornado Alley forever," according to physicist Rongjia Tao of Temple University.

The walls would need to be about 1,000 feet high and 150 feet wide, he said. Tao is presenting his research next week at the annual meeting of the American Physical Society in Denver."

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

Elstongunn — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:23:13 GMT

This is really dumb, for all the reasons stated in the article above.

Best thing to do is to prepare for them the best you can by watching and adhering to watches and warnings and getting to a safe area. The destruction of property cannot be helped, so make sure you have adequate insurance.

Besides, with all the climate changes, it could be that in a few years Tornado Alley will have shifted off to some other area, then all you'll have are big ugly expensive walls.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

straykatz — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:24:16 GMT

No I don't think this will work because tornadoes touch down all over the place...it's not like they start in the same place everytime.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

DoneTryin — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:25:20 GMT

Whoever the ""scientist"" is who came up with this idea has more time on his/her hands than sense in his/her head.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

LilacTree — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:26:44 GMT

I'd be happy right now if our bridges don't fall down, our roads don't open into cavernous holes, and gas leaks don't blow up buildings and houses.

Let's get to the infrastructure, then maybe we can worry about tornado walls.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

straykatz — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:27:23 GMT

$60 billion per 100 miles of wall

IMO....It would make better sense to spend all this money to put a storm shelters in everyone back yard who does not have a basement and lives in tornado alley.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

Elstongunn — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:35:59 GMT

On 2/26/2014 Ford1224 said:
I'd be happy right now if our bridges don't fall down, our roads don't open into cavernous holes, and gas leaks don't blow up buildings and houses.

Let's get to the infrastructure, then maybe we can worry about tornado walls.

I agree that our infrastructure is in shambles in roads, dams, bridges, aging pipes...you name it, it needs to be upgraded!

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

croemer — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:42:02 GMT

First tornadoes come from all directions.

Second lets say a tornado approaches a wall... hits that wall and bounces off... goes to another location and damages it?

Third lets say it scoops down missing the wall and then bounces around within the walls...that could be some real loss of life.

60 Billion dollars per 100 miles...not sure that would save a lot of money or lives.

This coming from a novice...not a scientist.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

JustJules — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:43:39 GMT

All great thoughts!!! I think it's a ridiculous idea as well. Will be interesting to see how his proposal "officially" goes over after he presents it in Denver next week.

Personally I would prefer to see more money go into funding the Red Cross and other disaster relief programs. As others mentioned, tornadoes occur all over the country, and while "tornado alley" may be more prone to them, it certainly doesn't have exclusive rights. Look at the tornadoes in Illinois this past week. They are part of mother nature, and I don't think she is going to be deterred by any big, expensive walls. JMO

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

JustJules — Wed, 26 Feb 2014 22:48:57 GMT

On 2/26/2014 croemer said:
First tornadoes come from all directions.

Second lets say a tornado approaches a wall... hits that wall and bounces off... goes to another location and damages it?

Third lets say it scoops down missing the wall and then bounces around within the walls...that could be some real loss of life.

60 Billion dollars per 100 miles...not sure that would save a lot of money or lives.

This coming from a novice...not a scientist.

Totally agree with you Croemer. Just out of curiosity I looked it up. Kansas is 400 miles long, Oklahoma is 478 miles. So going with just the Kansas portion alone, that wall would cost $240Billion. Plus he wants to build two other walls.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

gardenman — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:10:44 GMT

There are always scientists coming up with crazy ideas that have some logic behind them, but in the real world, are impractical.

Tornadoes are most prevalent in the midwest due to the Rockies out west forming a barrier that funnels cold air south where it then collides with the warm air from the south and when those two air masses start spinning tornadoes can form. In parts of the world where mountain ranges run east and west instead of north and south, tornadoes are much less prevalent. He's essentially talking about building a manmade mountain range to prevent the ready mixing of the two air currents.

In the real world it wouldn't work. It's the same logic as building a giant rocket motor in the middle of the southwestern desert that would be fueled by natural gas/oil wells that was suggested way, way back when I was in elementary school. The theory was that would allow us to move the planet out of the way of any asteroid, or move the whole planet to a new sun should our sun go out anytime.

At one time I remember a proposal to use nuclear weapons to blow apart hurricanes. The theory was you could drop a hydrogen bomb into the eye of a hurricane while it was well out to sea and end the rotation of the storm by literally blowing it apart. The radioactive fallout would then fall harmlessly into the ocean.

These are all ideas that make some small modicum of sense, but in the real world are a bit absurd. I wouldn't worry about this new crazy idea. It won't have any legs.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

croemer — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:16:40 GMT

Amen gardenman and Jules.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

Elstongunn — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 00:54:39 GMT

On 2/26/2014 gardenman said:
There are always scientists coming up with crazy ideas that have some logic behind them, but in the real world, are impractical.

Tornadoes are most prevalent in the midwest due to the Rockies out west forming a barrier that funnels cold air south where it then collides with the warm air from the south and when those two air masses start spinning tornadoes can form. In parts of the world where mountain ranges run east and west instead of north and south, tornadoes are much less prevalent. He's essentially talking about building a manmade mountain range to prevent the ready mixing of the two air currents.

In the real world it wouldn't work. It's the same logic as building a giant rocket motor in the middle of the southwestern desert that would be fueled by natural gas/oil wells that was suggested way, way back when I was in elementary school. The theory was that would allow us to move the planet out of the way of any asteroid, or move the whole planet to a new sun should our sun go out anytime.

At one time I remember a proposal to use nuclear weapons to blow apart hurricanes. The theory was you could drop a hydrogen bomb into the eye of a hurricane while it was well out to sea and end the rotation of the storm by literally blowing it apart. The radioactive fallout would then fall harmlessly into the ocean.

These are all ideas that make some small modicum of sense, but in the real world are a bit absurd. I wouldn't worry about this new crazy idea. It won't have any legs.

Is radioactive nuclear fallout really harmless to our oceans and ocean life?

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

mistriTsquirrel — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:15:02 GMT

Wow, it's only 3am, and I've already read the dumbest thing I'll probably read or hear all day.

Just out of curiosity, what would this "impenetrable" wall be made of? I'd click on the links, but I just don't want to. It makes me sad to think that there are scientists who would actually entertain--let alone endorse--this ridiculous idea.

Re: Can tornado walls protect us?

esmeraldagooch — Thu, 27 Feb 2014 10:53:49 GMT

NO! 56 years of tornado's on this map. Tell me how this would work. The bottom left side of this photos shows that tornado's are getting less per year. Waste of money.