topic Re: Francis strikes again! in Community Chat

Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:14:03 GMT

We have a beautiful inner city church that the bishop wants to tear down. The parishioners have been fighting him. The parishioners are very loyal to the church - an architectural wonder and source of pride for the community.

After over a year of wrangling...the new bishop agreed not to tear the church down - but he wants to close down the parish and sell the building.

The parishioners fought all the way up to the Vatican - and THEY WON!

The church will not only remain standing, the Vatican also is blocking shutting down this inner city parish.

Francis ROCKS!

Re: Francis strikes again!

Catitude — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:15:38 GMT

Why did the Bishop want the Church torn down?

Re: Francis strikes again!

SoX — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:20:00 GMT

Re: Francis strikes again!

esmerelda — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:21:04 GMT

My guess is upkeep and (small) size of congregation.

Re: Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:22:36 GMT

On 2/9/2014 Opurrra said:
Why did the Bishop want the Church torn down?

It needs repairs. The bishop said it would cost 12 million to fix it...the parishioners have their own engineers and said it would be a lot less and can be done in stages...they have raised money for repairs, but the bishop blocked them from fixing the church or using it at all.

Basically the leaders wanted to shut down the parish - in a poor, inner city neighborhood. They still get people to come in from the suburbs and even have services in Polish and German.

Re: Francis strikes again!

CrazyDaisy — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:36:18 GMT

No matter how beautiful the building and how loyal the congregation, it is very expensive to maintain an aging building.

Structural issues become a safety issue and should not be done on a budget. Should someone be hurt, who would be held responsible (not the congregation).

Re: Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:40:05 GMT

On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
No matter how beautiful the building and how loyal the congregation, it is very expensive to maintain an aging building.

Structural issues become a safety issue and should not be done on a budget. Should someone be hurt, who would be held responsible (not the congregation).

The point is that the congregation has raised the money to get it fixed...until this Vatican ruling, the local leaders refused to fix it...they wanted to tear it down, which in itself will cost millions.

Re: Francis strikes again!

kittykatkay — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:41:49 GMT

I love old buildings. Why won't people realize they don't construct buildings anymore like they used to. Find the money somewhere and repair if need be, but please don't tear down historical and beautiful buildings around our great land. You're gonna be sorry if you do and you can never, ever replace them.

Re: Francis strikes again!

151949 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:42:55 GMT

I don't understand why parishoners can't understand that the church simply can not afford to maintain all these aging buildings for all time. The heart of a church is not in the brick and mortar. I'm sure it is sad when this happens but the reality is that maintaining these buildings is not fiscally reasonable. Especially in light of the vastly lower memberships in established religions these days. So many of the younger folks flock to the churches that are more about entertaining an audience than praising God.

Re: Francis strikes again!

CrazyDaisy — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:53:23 GMT

On 2/9/2014 terrier3 said:
On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
No matter how beautiful the building and how loyal the congregation, it is very expensive to maintain an aging building.

Structural issues become a safety issue and should not be done on a budget. Should someone be hurt, who would be held responsible (not the congregation).

The point is that the congregation has raised the money to get it fixed...until this Vatican ruling, the local leaders refused to fix it...they wanted to tear it down, which in itself will cost millions.

You yourself said that the work could be done in stages, so they have not raised all the money to make all the needed repairs. At what point is it a safety issue? What if they can not raise the rest to complete the project?

Have to agree with Happy Housewife, its the people not the building that make the church.

Re: Francis strikes again!

Yardlie — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 17:57:02 GMT

Re: Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 18:05:50 GMT

On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
On 2/9/2014 terrier3 said:
On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
No matter how beautiful the building and how loyal the congregation, it is very expensive to maintain an aging building.

Structural issues become a safety issue and should not be done on a budget. Should someone be hurt, who would be held responsible (not the congregation).

The point is that the congregation has raised the money to get it fixed...until this Vatican ruling, the local leaders refused to fix it...they wanted to tear it down, which in itself will cost millions.

You yourself said that the work could be done in stages, so they have not raised all the money to make all the needed repairs. At what point is it a safety issue? What if they can not raise the rest to complete the project?

Have to agree with Happy Housewife, its the people not the building that make the church.

They were trying to shut down the entire parish ministry, disband the whole place.

The new, current local bishop admitted that the building is sound and can be repaired w/o spending too much money...but he wants to sell it for a non-church function and close down the parish.

The Vatican refused to let that happen.

That's the point!

Re: Francis strikes again!

CrazyDaisy — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 18:16:57 GMT

On 2/9/2014 terrier3 said:
On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
On 2/9/2014 terrier3 said:
On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
No matter how beautiful the building and how loyal the congregation, it is very expensive to maintain an aging building.

Structural issues become a safety issue and should not be done on a budget. Should someone be hurt, who would be held responsible (not the congregation).

The point is that the congregation has raised the money to get it fixed...until this Vatican ruling, the local leaders refused to fix it...they wanted to tear it down, which in itself will cost millions.

You yourself said that the work could be done in stages, so they have not raised all the money to make all the needed repairs. At what point is it a safety issue? What if they can not raise the rest to complete the project?

Have to agree with Happy Housewife, its the people not the building that make the church.

They were trying to shut down the entire parish ministry, disband the whole place.

The new, current local bishop admitted that the building is sound and can be repaired w/o spending too much money...but he wants to sell it for a non-church function and close down the parish.

The Vatican refused to let that happen.

That's the point!

First they want to tear it down then they want to sell it......

Point is that the congregation is not large enough to maintain that building. Parishes are consolidated all they time, they will be more than welcome at another church. Unless there is a plan in place to increase attendance (which is not guaranteed), your just postponing the closing.

That's the point!

Re: Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 18:23:24 GMT

On 2/9/2014 CrazyDaisy said:
On 2/9/2014 terrier3 said:

First they want to tear it down then they want to sell it......

Point is that the congregation is not large enough to maintain that building. Parishes are consolidated all they time, they will be more than welcome at another church. Unless there is a plan in place to increase attendance (which is not guaranteed), your just postponing the closing.

That's the point!

Yes, first they said it would cost 12 million to fix. Then when architects and others studied the situation and said that it would cost a lot less to repair...the new bishop changed his tune and said he wanted it sold to developers and used for another purpose.

The leaders contradicted themselves.

The congregation isn't large, but includes many former neighbors and gets worshipers from all over. They meet in another building, since the bishop hasn't allowed them in the main church in years.

The point is that the Vatican OVERRULED the local leaders and said they want the parish to remain whole and to continue their good works and outreach in the community.

That is a good thing, IMO.

BTW - a parish in AZ has wanted to buy one of our local churches and transport it, stone by stone and stained glass windows, to Arizona.
They say there are few magnificent old churches in AZ and want to restore an old, historically significant place.

Re: Francis strikes again!

Disneylandfan — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:26:20 GMT

I think that's great that they can restore the building. Jesus only had 12 apostles at the end and look what was accomplished. Size of the congregation isn't the issue but the heart of the congregation is important. If the church can be maintained with the membership they have then why not let it continue?

Re: Francis strikes again!

terrier3 — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:29:36 GMT

On 2/9/2014 Disneylandfan said:
I think that's great that they can restore the building. Jesus only had 12 apostles at the end and look what was accomplished. Size of the congregation isn't the issue but the heart of the congregation is important. If the church can be maintained with the membership they have then why not let it continue?

That's just what the Pope thinks!

Re: Francis strikes again!

Surfnturf — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:31:43 GMT

That's wonderful. I love the new pope. He's very progressive.

Re: Francis strikes again!

esmerelda — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:35:28 GMT

terrier...hope you'll provide updates on this local story, e.g., when repairs begin, how things go, etc. Preserving old buildings is a good thing...when it can be done.

Re: Francis strikes again!

occasionalrain — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 19:38:59 GMT

If everyone was so cheap, there would be no Downton Abbey.

Re: Francis strikes again!

Moonlady — Sun, 09 Feb 2014 20:21:18 GMT

It's always a good thing when parishes remain open.

As for the pope, I loved his official response to the recent U.N report criticizing the Catholic church for its teachings on h---$exuality, contraception, and abortion. He very pointedly told them to mind their own business and not to "interfere in the very doctrinal and moral positions of the Catholic Church.”

Good for him.