topic Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA in Community Chat

MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Oznell — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 17:57:16 GMT

I enjoy all the discussions we've had here in the past on Czar and Czarina Nicholas and Alexandra of Russia, since that period fascinates me. Robert Massie's original book, "Nicholas and Alexandra", was so good.

Didn't realize he had written another, follow-up, called "The Romanovs-- The Final Chapter". It covers everything that happened, during and after that horrific execution in in that basement in Ekaterinburg (or Yekaterinburg).

Ipatiev House, a once-proud residence in the town where the Romanovs were imprisoned for many months, and ultimately killed:

It was demolished by the government in 1977. Images of the deteriorating interior rooms have a haunting quality...

The Soviet secrecy, lies, cover-ups, and lingering mysteries engendered all the rumors, which included that certain family members escaped that night.

Warning re the following paragraph, for anyone unfamiliar, who may not want to know the details of execution--

The Bolshevik revolutionaries who had them killed wanted utmost secrecy. Eleven people were taken into that basement- the royal family of 2 parents and 5 children, the doctor, cook, maid and valet. After the shooting and stabbing, the bodies were burned and doused with acid as well. It went on and on, taking longer than anticipated, b/c several of them had jewels sewn into their clothes, which deflected bullets.

There were still remains, and nine of the bodies went into a secret grave nearby. Two remained missing, fueling rumors of escapees for many decades afterward...

Even after the first burial spot was discovered, there was the controversy over who were the missing. Experts agreed that one was Alexei, Tsarevich of Russia, the Romanovs' only son. He was 13. Toward the end, so sick was he with his hemophilia, he had to be carried by adults.

U.S. scientists believed that the other missing person was youngest daughter Anastasia, age 17 when she was killed. They were estimating from the height of the remains, and knew that the living Anastasia was petite, about 5'2-- and they asserted that there were no young females who were that tiny, among those found.

Russian analysts believed however, that it was second youngest daughter, Maria, age 19. She was taller.

They seemed confident as to the identities of the rest of the group, based on all their forensic analysis. The parents, the royal retainers, and the other children were identified.

While little Alexei suffered with his illness, the four daughters, in life, were healthy, spirited and fun-loving, but dutiful.

Here, visiting with wounded soldiers--

Of course, ultimately, the burial site of the last two family members was found, and all were accounted for. Prince Philip of England made headlines when he donated DNA to confirm that the remains of all the family were indeed Romanovs. ( Philip was the grand-nephew of Czarina Alexandra.)

That finally blasted to smithereens the claims of all the imposters over the years, including Anna Anderson, who long claimed to be Anastasia. Her lengthy, fantastical story deserves many books of its own.

Do you agree that Ingrid Bergman did a fab job portraying "Anna / Anastasia"? And got wonderful support from Yul Brynner....

The Soviets were responsible for the years of wild speculation and unease with all the various official versions of what happened, spawning the impostor syndrome. No one could get a straight story. In the public mind, the awful event of a mass assassination, twinned with the all the horror of World War I, seemed to haunt future cataclysmic events of the twentieth century....

From past discussions, we learned that people here have attended Nicholas and Alexandra exhibits, and have first hand experience with some of the sites and events overseas. Would love to hear about those.

There's so much explosive info in this second book, it's impossible to touch on even a fraction. Goes without saying, it's a great read.

Funnily enough, I found my copy of the 1995 book for $4.00 while combing our local antique store. But it's still available everywhere, including Amazon.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

beckyb1012 — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:14:09 GMT

Their lives as always fascinated me and when I watch old footage of the children playing it just breaks my heart. I always felt that Nicholas was a weak man and Alexandra well I just did not care for her at all. I do regret that King George did give them asylum.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

They CallMe MRWILKES — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:25:23 GMT

As a little aside, I've recommended this book before. Interesting for history lovers.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Oznell — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:30:18 GMT

So true, @beckyb1012 , the seeds of their destruction, to some degree, lay in the rigidity of the Romanovs, the inability to rule in a way that was responsive to the people. Nicholas started to make some good moves, but not enough-- and Alexandra was not a help at all in that regard.

But of course none of them deserved the sheer barbarism of what happened to them. I'm often too squeamish to read about executions, but, in their case I've read the accounts-- it's just so hard to believe. The children, and the hapless royal associates-- no one received any mercy whatsoever...

I think part of the reason so many wanted to believe in the idea that two of them escaped, was that you could hopefully imagine perhaps one of the captors relenting for a child. But not even that...

@They CallMe MRWILKES -- that looks really good! Thanks for the recommend.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

goldensrbest — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:43:44 GMT

Such a sad happening, what us humans do to our fellow humans.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

twinsister — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 18:47:03 GMT

Such a sad, but interesting story. Beautiful children.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Sooner — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 19:03:29 GMT

@They CallMe MRWILKES wrote:
As a little aside, I've recommended this book before. Interesting for history lovers.

I have to chime in here and say that is one of the best books I have read. The story is told in a very compelling way, and the implications and impacts of the relationships is astonishing. I love reading history!

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

beckyb1012 — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 19:10:06 GMT

I just checked my library and they do not carry that book. I want to read it so will look in retail.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

spiderw — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 19:39:09 GMT

I love History and English, my favorite school subjects!!!! I have read books about Nicholas and Alexandra, their lives and tragic end. Also Rasputin who had such an influence on Alexandra, he played a big part in her life when she ruled. The horrible murders of this ruling family was so sad and devastating. I read the book many years ago but it stayed with me. Ingrid Bergman did a great job portraying Anastasia in the movie, I agree, Oznell.

Thanks for the bits of information and history you provided, so interesting and informative!! I am glad all the remains have been found, mystery solved.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

SharkE — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 19:55:45 GMT

@beckyb1012 wrote:
Their lives as always fascinated me and when I watch old footage of the children playing it just breaks my heart. I always felt that Nicholas was a weak man and Alexandra well I just did not care for her at all. I do regret that King George did give them asylum.

He did at first then told them he couldn't . The English

didn't want more people who would be a burden to the

English people.

Those Royals really don't have any career of their own

They would had eventually been given this and that and money to keep up their lifestyle.

King GeorgeV and Queen Mary didn't want to upset their own 'nest'.

I read just lately King Charles got Harry and Meghan to give up Frogmore cottage for the rare times they go to England. They bought a house in Europe for those times.

Now, whether or not Prince Andrew has left his place that King Charles has been trying to get him to get out of I'm not sure. He doesn't want to leave.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

mildoo — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 21:14:12 GMT

Thank you for much for all the information you compiled on this family and their enormous contribution to history and the continuing interest today. I f ind this period to be so very interesting and I guess all the speculation over the years about Anastasia only added to the Romanov mystique. This time period of the early 20th century and leading up to WWI is really my favorite time of American History. I am not of Russian descent but I am of Slavic descent and Russian history I find to be so rich and interesting and brutal.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Spacrazy — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 21:32:54 GMT

Fascinating!

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Oznell — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 22:14:46 GMT

I learned a lot more in the book about the claimants to be the young Alexei than I had ever heard before. Supposed sons of the Czar turned up in Germany, Canada, and rather famously, Scottsdale, Arizona.

The one in Scottsdale was called Alexis Romanoff. He was a popular entrepreneur, a hail-fellow-well-met. He died in 1986. His friends seemed to have believed him to be the lost Tsarevich. An observer said-- they WANTED to believe.

Some of the people named Romanov/ Romanoff were not imposters-- they were just different branches of the real Romanov family, who were lucky not to be stamped out by the Communists coming into power.

Plenty are around today, like Princess Olga Andreevna Romanoff, who is a grandneice of Nicholas and Alexandra.

She's the British president of the Romanov Family Association, a group for the various real Romanov family descendants.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Oznell — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 22:19:28 GMT

@mildoo , I'm enamored of that period from 1900 up to roughly World War I (1914 - 1918) too! A very significant chapter in history....

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

jannabelle1 — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 22:33:51 GMT

Such an interesting thread, so thank you for posting. Add me to the list of those who are so enamored with the lives and deaths of Nicholas & Alexandria and their family. I've read Massie's original book several times, and always learn something new. Thanks for the recommendation of the follow-up book.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

riley1 — Fri, 18 Oct 2024 22:53:58 GMT

You should if your library has a borrow program with another library in your area.

Usually if my library does not have the book they have it sent from another library in my state.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Parischic — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 01:36:13 GMT

@Oznell
I wanted to thank you for your post. I clicked on it and read through it, I didn't know very much about the Romanovs but after what you wrote I just had to find out more!

I managed to find both books on Amazon and I will be getting them tomorrow. I'm looking forward to reading them. I used to not like history when I was in highschool but as I got older (much) I love it! Thank you again!

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

songbird — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 11:44:58 GMT

My understanding was the family language was English. Nickolas didn't speak German, his wife didn't speak Russian. But both were fluent in English. Letters between them were written in English. Russian was spoken to servants. But the children were not that fluent in Russian.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

jubilant — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 13:04:13 GMT

Yes, I agree....Ingrid Bergmann and Yul Brynner were both great in that movie. I saw it years ago. What a sad ending for this

family.

Re: MORE ON NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA

Oznell — Sat, 19 Oct 2024 23:04:01 GMT

@jannabelle1 , your comment strikes such a chord with me. With books like this, densely packed with historical fact, one reading is never enough. Very true that each time you go back, you find something new...

@Parischic , that is great to hear! Hope you enjoy your reading!