topic Re: My moms guilt. in Community Chat

My moms guilt.

Northray — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 17:55:59 GMT

So my mom took care of my gram who had dementia for about 21/2 years. Mom and Gram had a bit of a rocky relationship but for the most part, they loved each other. Ma had/s lots of anger issues about her childhood tho and how Gram did this or didn't do that.

I could see that Gram was hard on Mom, always getting on her about her weight or her appearance. Dismissing Ma's issues when Ma would try to talk to her about it. Gram had a very poor, poverty-stricken childhood so she didn't think anything could be as bad as that. But Ma suffered from depression and other issues that Gram did think were real and would always try to dismiss things happening to Mom. On the other hand Gram would be there for you in a snap if you needed her. Always had our backs. So I would tell Ma to move forward and not get stuck in the past.

Long story short. Taking care of a person with dementia is a crazy challenge and one of the issues is they don't want to bathe. They don't take care of their hygiene. And they think they have bathed and fight to have to bathe again. During those times and other trying times, Ma would lose it and say all the things to her she wanted to say but couldn't. One time I heard Ma call her a mean old crazy hag etc.

Gram died and now Ma is guilt stricken. We sent her to therapy but it didn't seem to help. I don't know how to help her. She cannot forgive herself.

Re: My moms guilt.

LindaSal — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 18:09:56 GMT

This is deeper than I can go but we all have events in our life that we wish we could change. Sadly it will stay with us always. I wonder if she didn't stay with the therapy long enough? Sounds like real issues here that could take a lifetime just to learn how to

live daily with it. I wish you and your mom the best.

Re: My moms guilt.

DSD2 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 18:10:57 GMT

My heart goes out to you and to your mother.

Your mother "cannot forgive herself" encapsulated the situation perfectly. Taking care of someone with dementia, parents included is one of the most selfless, difficult and heartbreaking kindnesses one can do.

And yet your mother feels wracked with guilt, with regret.

Perhaps your mother might give therapy another try with someone else. You are obviously a caring daughter and I'm sure your encouragement and support has helped. Gentle whispers reminding her what she did will hopefully help.

In the meantime, I might suggest you pray. I know God listens. There is always hope and sometimes hope is all we have.

God bless you both.

Re: My moms guilt.

BoopOMatic — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 18:44:07 GMT

@Northray If your mother took care of her for 2.5 years; she has nothing to feel guilty about because she lost her temper/composure a few times.

Your mother is an angel and you can tell her I said so.

Re: My moms guilt.

Kachina624 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 18:54:58 GMT

@Northray. If your mom didn't click with one therapist, try another. Sometimes it takes more than one try to find "the one".

If your mom is so wracked with guilt over saying things that gram may not have even comprehended, she needs professional help.

Re: My moms guilt.

LTT1 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 18:56:48 GMT

@Northray

I know you feel responsible to help somehow, but until the person themself wants to change, you cannot instigate this change or the therapy for it.

I'm sure you have reminded your mom that she did all that was humanly possible to help your grandmother.

Still, I'm sure it hurts to see your beloved mom suffer such guilt but if you can, de-program yourself to not let it destroy your sense of calm.

Again, there's only a certain amount of caring we can do for someone whose change needs to come from within.

Hang in there!

Re: My moms guilt.

Burnsite — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:17:58 GMT

My dad developed early onset Alzheimer's in his 50s--and lived another 41 years. (Never run and hike! It makes people strong, but they can make an Alzheimer's patient nearly immortal.) My Dad died in his 90s, and suffered so.

In the early phases of the illness, there is a lot of anger. Later on, Dad loved to see people he recognized, though he couldn't speak. He would cry when his kids came in (my mother was deceased when he became ill) and he would cry when we would leave. It's a horrible illness, and the people afflicted are very disoriented and sad. Your mother should forgive her mom and also herself.

My favorite Alzheimer's story (few people fight Alzheimers for almost 50 years as my father did)....about 5-10 years in, Dad vanished. (Sundown syndrome--AZ patients get restless and sometimes get out.) We called the police and all of us also combed the streets.

We found him in the Asian/Pacific style restaurant, two blocks from where he lived, having a Mai Tai with a former patient and neighbor that he couldn't speak to, but recognized, as she did him. They were at the bar, smiling but silent. Happy looking.

They both had Alzheimers, had met on the street and recognized each other, and proceeded to have a meal together at the local pu-pu platter restaurant nearby.

My dad never touched alcohol, nor did Lucy. Yet both, when discovered by the police who knew them both well (small town), went home rather happily,

It's a darned sad ailment overall. Please tell your mom that 2 1/2 years is the turbulent beginning for many patients, as aggression and resistance is (or at least in my Dad's case, was) a disturbing reaction to their loss of autonomy.

Re: My moms guilt.

Tinkrbl44 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:11:21 GMT

@Northray wrote:
So my mom took care of my gram who had dementia for about 21/2 years. Mom and Gram had a bit of a rocky relationship but for the most part, they loved each other. Ma had/s lots of anger issues about her childhood tho and how Gram did this or didn't do that.

I could see that Gram was hard on Mom, always getting on her about her weight or her appearance. Dismissing Ma's issues when Ma would try to talk to her about it. Gram had a very poor, poverty-stricken childhood so she didn't think anything could be as bad as that. But Ma suffered from depression and other issues that Gram did think were real and would always try to dismiss things happening to Mom. On the other hand Gram would be there for you in a snap if you needed her. Always had our backs. So I would tell Ma to move forward and not get stuck in the past.

Long story short. Taking care of a person with dementia is a crazy challenge and one of the issues is they don't want to bathe. They don't take care of their hygiene. And they think they have bathed and fight to have to bathe again. During those times and other trying times, Ma would lose it and say all the things to her she wanted to say but couldn't. One time I heard Ma call her a mean old crazy hag etc.

Gram died and now Ma is guilt stricken. We sent her to therapy but it didn't seem to help. I don't know how to help her. She cannot forgive herself.

@Northray

EVERYONE seems to be guilt stricken about something after a parent dies. This is rather common.

It would have been helpful if your mom had connected with a Caregiver Support Group when she was caring for Gram. Why not google that and see what comes up?

You didn't mention but if your mom goes to church then she should have an appointment with her religious advisor and get counselling from them.

IMO, there's no way you can help her until she's open to being "forgiven".

Re: My moms guilt.

Malcontent — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:17:46 GMT

Life, like it or not … plays out the way it should.

Accept it and move on.

Re: My moms guilt.

GingerHead — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:32:32 GMT

That's a hard one, my elderly dad lived with us while going through cancer treatments and it was DIFFICULT and honestly what little relationship we did have suffered because of it. I understand the hygiene issues, etc involved.

I feel for your mom because I'm a major worrier and feel guilty a lot. It's a horrible terrible feeling, we all know this. While feeling guilt is a necessary evil at times because it can teach us to do differently/ be better next time it can also become something we can't move past and become debilitating.

You could try to help your mom to understand that she was under a lot of stress and did the best she could at the time but that for her own sanity she needs to give herself some grace and move on.

She's not changing the past by feeling so badly, there's no one to make amends to or to apologize to so the guilt is only hurting her. It's a worthless, damaging emotion at this point. life's too short to be stuck in that.

I'd just remind her of this anytime you can. Sometimes just hearing little reasonable tidbits from loved ones can reset the mind.

I wish ya'll well.

Re: My moms guilt.

candyagain — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:35:01 GMT

Your mother did her best by her mother. It may not have always been THE best but she did HER best. And she did her duty to her mother.

Re: My moms guilt.

Tinkrbl44 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:47:56 GMT

@GingerHead wrote:
That's a hard one, my elderly dad lived with us while going through cancer treatments and it was DIFFICULT and honestly what little relationship we did have suffered because of it. I understand the hygiene issues, etc involved.

I feel for your mom because I'm a major worrier and feel guilty a lot. It's a horrible terrible feeling, we all know this. While feeling guilt is a necessary evil at times because it can teach us to do differently/ be better next time it can also become something we can't move past and become debilitating.
You could try to help your mom to understand that she was under a lot of stress and did the best she could at the time but that for her own sanity she needs to give herself some grace and move on.
She's not changing the past by feeling so badly, there's no one to make amends to or to apologize to so the guilt is only hurting her. It's a worthless, damaging emotion at this point. life's too short to be stuck in that.
I'd just remind her of this anytime you can. Sometimes just hearing little reasonable tidbits from loved ones can reset the mind.
I wish ya'll well.

@GingerHead

I love this definition:

"Worry is vividly and emotionally picturing life repeatedly as you DON'T want it to happen."

Re: My moms guilt.

GingerHead — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 19:52:02 GMT

@Tinkrbl44 wrote:
@GingerHead wrote:
That's a hard one, my elderly dad lived with us while going through cancer treatments and it was DIFFICULT and honestly what little relationship we did have suffered because of it. I understand the hygiene issues, etc involved.

I feel for your mom because I'm a major worrier and feel guilty a lot. It's a horrible terrible feeling, we all know this. While feeling guilt is a necessary evil at times because it can teach us to do differently/ be better next time it can also become something we can't move past and become debilitating.
You could try to help your mom to understand that she was under a lot of stress and did the best she could at the time but that for her own sanity she needs to give herself some grace and move on.
She's not changing the past by feeling so badly, there's no one to make amends to or to apologize to so the guilt is only hurting her. It's a worthless, damaging emotion at this point. life's too short to be stuck in that.
I'd just remind her of this anytime you can. Sometimes just hearing little reasonable tidbits from loved ones can reset the mind.
I wish ya'll well.

@GingerHead

I love this definition:

"Worry is vividly and emotionally picturing life repeatedly as you DON'T want it to happen."

Great definition....

Re: My moms guilt.

goldensrbest — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 21:19:08 GMT

There is not a thing you can do to stop her from feeling quilty, she has to work through it herself.

Re: My moms guilt.

Northray — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:06:53 GMT

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I've been having a hard time signing into the forum today so I couldn't reply sooner.

The thing is she did do a great job of caring for Gram. Had her like a baby, getting the best stuff for her. Dementia toys and all kinds of warming blankets because Gram was ALWAYS cold. Special diet and foods because Gram had stomach issues, etc etc. Had to dementia-proof the whole house. Which is what you would do for a toddler. Because they get into stuff and you wind up with tennis shoes in the microwave. I remind her all the time but she counters with but I said some pretty hateful things to her, how could I say such things! I had no patience, I should have had more patience! Gram had severe agitation in the evening. That would panic my mom. The repeating over and over. It was, ugh ...... a crazy-making situation for sure.

Told my mom, Ma if you get dementia you are going into memory care because I'm not even half the woman you are. But God forbid she should get it too. Anyway, I'm unloading way too much, sorry guys.

Bottom line, like many of you have said she did what she could, she did HER BEST. I told her she gave Gram her best, she gives me her best every day. Part of it is she's grieving too. So there's that as well. Gram was the kind of person you couldn't live with or without her. She was something. I love them both.

Re: My moms guilt.

Tinkrbl44 — Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:59:44 GMT

@Northray

Two things came to mind after I posted .... first, could her depression be part of this equation?

Second, if you haven't already done so, put her on the spot a little bit and ask her SPECIFICALLY ... what could she have done differently? What could possibly have made more of a difference with a difficult person with dementia?

Oftentimes, you just do the best you can in that moment, even if it wasn't perfect. Even under the best of circumstances, dementia can be a nightmare for the caregivers!

Re: My moms guilt.

RedTop — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 00:22:00 GMT

@Northray

Just recently my brothers and I moved our 89 year old mother with dementia into a 24/7 care situation. Essentially she functions on the level of a toddler, and has to be fed, bathed, and changed as one.

Mom wanted to die in her home which was the only place she wanted to be; we understood that and did everything within our power to keep her at home for as long as we could. This dementia journey has been 12 LONG, difficult years; the first 6 years were the annoying forgetful years, then came the diagnosis and 6 years of the different stages, arguing, anger, accusations, paranoia, sundowners, the major loss of functional skills, and the wandering. My brothers "promised" mom they would help her stay in her home, but ultimately safety concerns dictated moving her into a safe environment.

Both of my brothers, 60 and over, feel they broke their promise, and regret not being able to let mom stay in her home until she dies. They have chosen to hold onto that, even tho they well remember other comments mom made in reference to her old age care long before her dementia diagnosis.

Our mother did not want our lives turned upside down to care for her, but they were. There was no way our mom could know that dementia would turn her into a mean, aggressive person who doesn't know who we are, or turn her into a toddler who likes to run around naked and thinks it's funny! My family has been thru it all for 12 years; we have done our best, and Mom would definitely agree that we have, and not want us to have regrets as to words we said, or anything we didn't do. She would say we've done enough.

There's no book of rules with caring for a dementia patient; you are thrown into it to do the very best you can, to the very end. Even with our best efforts, the day came when we had to face the fact that as 3 adults over 60, we were not meeting all of moms needs.

Re: My moms guilt.

Sooner — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 00:50:10 GMT

@Northray Unfortunately, you cannot make or get someone to live the life you think is best for them. You cannot make them do what they need to do, or want to do it.

The only person you have control over is yourself, and sometimes we have to stop and understand that as painful as it is, all we can do is live our own life the best way we see fit.

Been there, done that and have a long hard road to accepting that. I feel for you and do wish you peace and comfort.

Re: My moms guilt.

Marceil — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 01:38:58 GMT

I have a different take.
My elderly father wanted to stay home. For 5 years my siblings and I did everything we could to do so. I did a lot and did it out of love.

The last 2 months of his 96 years he HAD to go to a fine nursing home. He said and threatened us with the most horrible things. It was relentless. I worked most of my life in a nursing home and I knew many things to "do". Nevertheless up till his last day he never forgave us.
'Please tell your mom as someone receiving this treatment I forgave him immediately.

So-your Gram would have surely done the same.

Re: My moms guilt.

AuntMame — Sat, 11 Nov 2023 02:55:20 GMT

Guilt is very common after a long haul of caregiving for someone with dementia. You should call the local chapter of the Alzheimer's Association. They have local support groups for caregivers who are in Stage 8, as it is referred to, of dementia. In other words, support groups for caregivers who's loved one has passed and they are dealing with the overwhelming feelings of guilt and regret that come after.

Your mom might need to find a therapist who has experience helping caregivers. A friend went through this while caregiving for her parents. She went through several therapists until she found one she clicked with and who had experience working with caregivers. She said it was like the clouds broke and her life changed while working with this therapist.

I'm so sorry your mom is going through this. Dementia in any form is a horrible illness, and caregiving exacts a huge toll, mentally and physically. The guilt your mom is experiencing is common and your mom is going to need her own time to heal.

The Alzheimer's Association runs an online support forum for caregivers who's loved ones have passed. If you peruse the messages you'll see that many in the forum write of suffering similar feelings of guilt: https://alzconnected.org/categories/supporting-those-who-have-lost-someone