topic Re: Why Do We in Community Chat

Why Do We

Desert Lily — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:37:01 GMT

Why do we still lose power in storms in 2022?

Sadly people died due to power outages in last weekend's blizzard. Power outages occur in tornadoes, monsoons, hurricanes, high winds; when the temps get too high & the grid can't handle it, floods, etc.

Power outages lose lives.

I truly don't understand the reason(s) behind outages in 2022.

My power lines are buried, but I still lost power Friday morning. Thank goodness it came back on later the same day.

I think? homes newer than about 25 years have buried power lines (they did where I lived on the West coast.), but they can still lose power.

Is it because power lines are above ground?

Is it due to power stations being exposed & vulnerable?

Is it because trees topple?

Is it because we're behind the times in updating our power?

Does anyone understand the power grids and know why we have power outages?

And, how do the power grids need to change so this doesn't happen anymore?

**Please don't make this political. I'm just trying to understand what happens and hope there are solutions someday.

Re: Why Do We

JoyFilled Warrior — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:20:17 GMT

@Desert Lily wrote:
Why do we still lose power in storms in 2022?

Sadly people died due to power outages in last weekend's blizzard. Power outages occur in tornadoes, monsoons, hurricanes, high winds; when the temps get too high & the grid can't handle it, floods, etc.

Power outages lose lives.

I truly don't understand the reason(s) behind outages in 2022.
My power lines are buried, but I still lost power Friday morning. Thank goodness it came back on later the same day.
I think? homes newer than about 25 years have buried power lines (they did where I lived on the West coast.), but they can still lose power.

Is it because power lines are above ground?
Is it due to power stations being exposed & vulnerable?
Is it because trees topple?
Is it because we're behind the times in updating our power?

Does anyone understand the power grids and know why we have power outages?

**Please don't make this political. I'm just trying to understand what happens and hope there are solutions someday.

~~~~~~~~

@Desert Lily

Good question! I'm going to stay tuned for the answer!

Re: Why Do We

moonandthestars — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:37:36 GMT

@Desert Lily all of the above, I believe - everything you mentioned. And probably a thing or two that were not listed. I'll be checking back too for ideas others may have.

Re: Why Do We

Kachina624 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:43:28 GMT

@Desert Lily We almost never lose power in my town because its a new community incorporated about 1981. All the homes were built with underground utilities, although there are some power lines on main boulevards. Once in awhile a car will nail one in a wreck. Once we had a fire in a electric co. facility. I've lived here 23 years and we've only lost power 3 or 4 times and only briefly.

Re: Why Do We

Goldengate8361 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:50:36 GMT

This is unequivocal evidence that we definitely needed that federal investment in infrastructure that our leaders were able to get passed in Congress. It's going to take time to build up everything, including our power grid, since hardly any federal spending has been devoted to this up until just now. We are headed in the right direction, however, with current investments allocated for updates and improvements.

Re: Why Do We

Desert Lily — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:54:20 GMT

@Kachina624 I had underground lines when I lived in the West (my house was 22 years old when I moved in April), and I have underground lines here in my new construction home.

But I lost power in the West a few times (usually in January with no explanation given), and I lost power here in PA on Friday.

It would seem that underground lines would be the answer, but I still lost power with them. So, I don't understand why.

It's good that your area has better control on the power system.

Re: Why Do We

carlycat — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 04:54:45 GMT

I retired from an electric utility.

There are 2 kinds of power lines: transmission and distribution. Transmission is from the plant to the substation. It is the highest voltage. Substations "step" the power down to levels usable by the consumer. Transmission lines are generally above ground. They are the super big towers you see.

Distribution lines "distribute" power to end users. They exit the substation. They may be underground or above ground. So, any disruption to lines along the way can cause outages; wind, trees, lightning, snow, ice, squirrels are a big problem!

In addition, power flow must remain stable on the lines. There are people working 24/7 to maintain a steady state, I think they balance it like every 16 seconds! This means switching to keep power surges from happening. In storms, lightning and wind can throw things off.

Also a factor Is demand. When it gets really cold, or hot, or humid, everyone uses more power. The demand may outstrip supply. Utilities share power (well, buy it from each other) when they have to. When we have extreme weather all over, there just isn't enough, they can't make enough. Like what happened in Texas last year.

Needless to say, this is all terribly expensive. It costs over $3 million per mile to move a transmission line underground. Less than $1 million per mile to build above ground. To generate power, you can use coal, natural gas, wind, solar, hydroelectric, nuclear. All have pluses and minuses. All are expensive. The consumer has to pay for all of this; utilities are regulated by the government but not government owned. And of course, linemen have to work to keep the lines going. That's a dangerous job.

It's really an amazing system. We take it for granted and don't realize how difficult it is.

Re: Why Do We

alliswell — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:09:44 GMT

@carlycat Thank you for your post, you explained some things I've wondered about.

Re: Why Do We

gertrudecloset — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:10:16 GMT

@Desert Lily wrote:
Why do we still lose power in storms in 2022?

Sadly people died due to power outages in last weekend's blizzard. Power outages occur in tornadoes, monsoons, hurricanes, high winds; when the temps get too high & the grid can't handle it, floods, etc.

Power outages lose lives.

I truly don't understand the reason(s) behind outages in 2022.
My power lines are buried, but I still lost power Friday morning. Thank goodness it came back on later the same day.
I think? homes newer than about 25 years have buried power lines (they did where I lived on the West coast.), but they can still lose power.

Is it because power lines are above ground?
Is it due to power stations being exposed & vulnerable?
Is it because trees topple?
Is it because we're behind the times in updating our power?

Does anyone understand the power grids and know why we have power outages?

And, how do the power grids need to change so this doesn't happen anymore?

**Please don't make this political. I'm just trying to understand what happens and hope there are solutions someday.

@Desert Lily

Whether power lines are overhead or underground has nothing to do with the age of the home. Where I live (in a City) we have both. The power lines to my community are overhead. In other parts of the city they are buried underground because of the height of tall buildings and that sort of thing.

You do ask a good question though. Why with all our technological advancement does power outages cause so much death? When it's cold it's got to because the grids are trying to do their best. The same for when it's real hot with brown outs. Extreme conditions of any form seem to be problematic for power failure. Why can't we "damage proof" the power lines? We can do space flights, but we can't figure out ways to protect our resources from natural occurences in weather is a very good question.

Re: Why Do We

alliswell — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:16:59 GMT

@gertrudecloset wrote:
@Desert Lily wrote:
Why do we still lose power in storms in 2022?

Sadly people died due to power outages in last weekend's blizzard. Power outages occur in tornadoes, monsoons, hurricanes, high winds; when the temps get too high & the grid can't handle it, floods, etc.

Power outages lose lives.

I truly don't understand the reason(s) behind outages in 2022.
My power lines are buried, but I still lost power Friday morning. Thank goodness it came back on later the same day.
I think? homes newer than about 25 years have buried power lines (they did where I lived on the West coast.), but they can still lose power.

Is it because power lines are above ground?
Is it due to power stations being exposed & vulnerable?
Is it because trees topple?
Is it because we're behind the times in updating our power?

Does anyone understand the power grids and know why we have power outages?

And, how do the power grids need to change so this doesn't happen anymore?

**Please don't make this political. I'm just trying to understand what happens and hope there are solutions someday.

@Desert Lily
Whether power lines are overhead or underground has nothing to do with the age of the home. Where I live (in a City) we have both. The power lines to my community are overhead. In other parts of the city they are buried underground because of the height of tall buildings and that sort of thing.

You do ask a good question though. Why with all our technological advancement does power outages cause so much death? When it's cold it's got to because the grids are trying to do their best. The same for when it's real hot with brown outs. Extreme conditions of any form seem to be problematic for power failure. Why can't we "damage proof" the power lines? We can do space flights, but we can't figure out ways to protect our resources from natural occurences in weather is a very good question.

@gertrudecloset Yes, Exactly.

Re: Why Do We

Kachina624 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 05:43:48 GMT

@Desert Lily Maybe there was a problem with the lines feeding into the underground part. When there was a fire in the facility, that was miles away.

Re: Why Do We

CalminHeart — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 12:51:04 GMT

Most areas have above ground power lines. Only newer areas have underground lines in my state or anywhere I've traveled...I've been to 48 states.

Unprecendented storms, winds, snow, floods, etc, will always affect power. It's called relying on 1950 (or before) power lines in in 2022 climate change storms.

Almost every state uses shared power grids (across state lines) which helps keep power going and allows easier fixes than if they had an isolated grid. Look at Texas. They have an isolated power grid so when Texas is hit, the don't have access to other grids to make it easier to get power going again.

Re: Why Do We

Imaoldhippie — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 13:53:04 GMT

@Desert Lily .................demand for electricity goes up each passing year. More houses, more new commercial buildings, more people using more and more power. And now we are supposed to buy electric cars!

The power companies cant keep up with the demand, old power stations, lines above ground that are ages old are just some of the problems we know about.

Its just the tip of the iceberg.

Re: Why Do We

Jordan2 — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 14:25:11 GMT

I don't know. I often wonder why ConEdison doesn't upgrade their equipment, they know it will be hot come the summer and people will be using their air conditioners, yet we usually have a black out.

Re: Why Do We

goldensrbest — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 14:35:20 GMT

I don't know why,but we do here,what also i feel is just horrible people die in snow banks,in cars durning snow storms ,because the freeze too death.

Re: Why Do We

Desert Lily — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 14:52:04 GMT

Hi @carlycat Thank you for the in-depth information.

I still have questions as to the why, even with that great info.

Your wrote: Distribution lines "distribute" power to end users. They exit the substation. They may be underground or above ground. So, any disruption to lines along the way can cause outages; wind, trees, lightning, snow, ice, squirrels are a big problem!

I've lived in 7 states. For 22+ years I lived on the desert West coast with underground lines, and since April in a new construction home in PA with underground lines. I lost power in the West coast a few times; there was no storm then & it was about 60 degrees out in January. I lost power on 12/23/22 in this PA home with underground lines. The power was lost during the winter storm with 35-40mph wind. It wasn't due to excessive demand because it wasn't extra cold yet then, and thankfully power came back on when it was extra cold.

I've lost power with underground lines, so I'm still unclear as to why we have so many power outages and what should be done to prevent them.

Re: Why Do We

wagirl — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 15:17:37 GMT

Not an expert here at all, but from the few things I have heard--the power grid in this country is too freaking old and antiquated.for all the technical advantages, the power grid is not up to par. will take trillions of $$ to over haul it and with the political climate now days--I would not expect anything to be done until something catastrophic happens--isn't that always the case?I'm sure there is alot more to it than my feeble atempts and way beyond my brain power too.

Re: Why Do We

Mindy D — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 17:47:29 GMT

We have underground power lines. We still lose power often. I'm in S. Florida. One frequent cause is the small stations the power company has that contain transformers. The transformers frequently blow out and the power company races to fix or replace them. We also have storms all the time. I'd say we briefly lose power a couple times a week. During times of peak air conditioning useage, on very hot days, we lose power more. We reset our microwave and stove clocks all the time. They were flashing just the other morning, so we must have lost power during the night. We have an excellent power company, FPL, that excels in the restoration of power after hurricanes. They stay on top of things.

Re: Why Do We

bikerbabe — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 17:54:50 GMT

I’m in CA and around here most lines are ABOVE ground. Below ground is exponentially more expensive. And you don’t even want to know the cost of changing from above to below. Billions.

Much of the nation’s infrastructure is antiquated and vulnerable to weather and terrorist attack. There are also issues of supply and demand in weather extremes when millions of people are using more power all at the same time.

Re: Why Do We

SilleeMee — Wed, 28 Dec 2022 18:00:56 GMT

Just like us everything gets old, run down, things break and fail. We need a makeover to the Nth degree.