topic Re: Solar panels on our home in Community Chat

Solar panels on our home

SeaMaiden — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 19:44:18 GMT

I am considering it...my neighbor got some and he is very pleased with how much his energy costs have gone down a lot already...plus he has an electric car so it is like free for him to charge the car and drive it.

do any of you have these on your home? Not a cheap investment....but Ifeel good one overall.

will let you know more as I get all the info.

Re: Solar panels on our home

Porcelain — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:03:49 GMT

It's your house, nobody else's so you should do what works for you. I think I watched a video that said the orientation of your home makes a difference. You also want to make sure the panels aren't impeded by nearby trees.

Here's a balanced article that weighs the pros and cons, addressing some of the cons as well. It's from the website solarreviews.

Solar energy pros and cons

Looking at the advantages and disadvantages of solar energy from a homeowner's perspective is an important step in the research process when considering installing solar panels for your home.

Here are a few that come up most often:

Main solar energy pros and cons

Pros of solar energy Cons of solar energy

Reduces electric bill	High upfront cost
Insurance against rising power prices	Intermittent energy source
Solar is cheaper than ever	Manufacturing panels has some impact on the environment
See a return on your investment	Requires space
Environmentally friendly	Not the best if you're planning to move
Energy independence

The argument for the average American homeowner to install solar panels for their home is now better than it has ever been, as the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.

Let’s take a closer look at each of these solar energy pros and cons.

Advantages of solar energy

1. Reduces your electric bill

One of the biggest benefits of solar panels is that they can provide you with substantial savings on your electric bill. Many states require utilities to offer net metering, which allows homeowners to offset their electric costs with the energy their solar panels produce.

They can then sell that excess energy to the utility. This will usually be added to their electric bills as a credit that can then be used to offset future electricity costs.

In many states, adding solar panels to your home can bring in electric bill savings of well over $1,000 per year. Residents of California who go solar save an average of $99,181 over the lifetime of their solar system!

2. Insurance against rising power prices

One thing most homeowners know is that electricity keeps getting more expensive. The price of electricity has increased steadily over the past 10 years, with an average increase of about $0.2 per year. The cost of electricity will continue to rise into the future, meaning your electric bill will continue to go up too.

Solar panels protect you from these rising electricity costs. Because you are producing your own energy, you don’t have to buy that expensive power from your utility. So, rising electric costs are a worry of the past! In fact, rising prices might actually be a good thing when you install solar.

For example, let’s say your utility charges 12 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity. That means with net metering, your utility would pay you 12 cents for each excess kWh of electricity your solar panels produce and send to the grid.

If your utility raises its electricity price to 13 cents per kilowatt-hour of electricity, that means the power you send to the grid would also be worth 13 cents.

So, net metering is saving you more money each time your utility company raises its prices!

3. Solar is cheaper than ever

While electricity prices continue to get more expensive, the cost of solar has continued to fall. Solar is now cheaper than ever; in fact, the cost has fallen over 70% in the past decade. These low prices make solar more accessible to more homeowners than ever before.

Installing solar can be even cheaper when you take advantage of solar incentives. For example, if you install a solar system before the end of 2032, you could be eligible for the 30% federal tax credit.

This tax credit is equal to 30% of the total cost of your solar system and is applied to your income taxes. In addition to the federal tax credit, there are many other solar incentives offered locally.

4. See a return on your investment

Solar panels not only eliminate your electric bill, they can also be a source of extra income. As we mentioned before, net metering allows you to earn money by selling excess power your solar panels generate to your utility.

Some states have other performance-based incentives, like Solar Renewable Energy Credits (SRECs), that have the potential to earn you hundreds of dollars a year, depending on where you live.

The money you earn from net metering, combined with your electric bill savings and other incentives, goes towards paying back the cost of your system. In areas that have all of these incentives, the payback time for a solar panel system can be as little as four years.

Once your system is paid off, your solar panels will continue to generate free power for your home for the lifetime of the system!

5. Environmentally friendly

Another big selling point for solar is that it is a renewable energy source. This means that as you use the resource, it doesn’t deplete the source. So, by using the sunlight that hits the earth and turning it into electricity, we don't deplete the sun’s energy.

Plus, electricity created with solar panels does not produce any greenhouse gas emissions. Nothing is being released into the atmosphere when we produce electricity with solar panels. The only thing that's created is clean energy!

6. Energy independence

Having solar panels allows homeowners to create their own energy, thereby giving them energy independence. Essentially this means a solar home isn’t as dependent on the traditional electric grid. This allows you to take power into your own hands and control where your home is getting its energy from.

On a larger scale, the United States making the switch to solar and other renewable energies would allow the country to achieve energy independence. The US would not have to rely heavily on other countries to get oil and gas like we do now.

Using energy created right here in the US and not relying on foreign sources is great for national security and for the country's economy.

Disadvantages of solar energy

1. High upfront cost

The large upfront cost is one of the biggest drawbacks of solar panel systems. As of January 2022, the average cost of solar in the U.S. is about $3.00 per watt. So, a 6 kW solar panel system would run you around $18,000, on average, before the federal tax credit is applied. The actual cost of a solar system will vary by state, and by the incentives that you qualify for.

Luckily, there are solar financing options available. In many cases, you can qualify for a zero-down solar loan, which allows you to still save money on your electric bill and reap the benefits of owning a solar system.

2. Solar energy is an intermittent energy source

There are three main reasons why solar is considered an intermittent source of power:

The sun doesn't shine at night. Therefore solar panels don't generate power at night.
The intensity of the sun varies based on the location, the time of year, and the time of day.
Cloud, snow, and foliage cover can have a significant effect on the amount of energy produced by solar panels.

All of these factors have been used to argue that solar power cannot be relied on for base load or mission-critical applications. However, this is changing with the emergence of cost-effective battery solutions. Batteries allow homeowners to store their solar power and draw energy from the battery when their solar panels aren’t producing energy.

The most popular residential solar battery is the Tesla Powerwall, a 13.5 kWh lithium-ion battery. Other manufacturers, such as sonnen, LG, and BYD offer great solar batteries for home energy storage, as well.

Ongoing advances in battery storage are a sign that intermittency may not be a limitation on solar power for long.

3. Solar panel manufacturing has some environmental impact

While the power that solar panels generate is emission-free, it is important to note that there is some pollution associated with the manufacturing of solar panels.

Some solar panels contain harmful pollutants, like sulfur hexafluoride, which is more potent than carbon dioxide. However, the impact of carbon dioxide on the climate is

much greaterthan that of sulfur hexafluoride.

The environmental impact of solar panels is minimal compared to the amount of damage associated with the mining and burning of fossil fuels.

4. Solar panels require space

Solar panels require space in order to meet energy needs. For residential installations, a roof will almost always have enough space. However, when you look at large grid-scale solar installations, space can be a bit of an issue.

This is because solar panels have a lower power density. Power density is how much power can be derived from an energy source within a certain area, measured in watts per square meter (W/m2). The power density of solar panels is low compared to those of fossil fuels.

This means that you need a larger area of solar panels in order to produce the same amount of energy that a coal plant would. However, the amount of land that was mined for fossil fuels is not considered in this measurement.

So although you would need a large solar power plant and a small coal plant, the mining of coal destroys acres upon acres of land, whereas the solar power plant does not.

5. You can’t take solar with you

One of the disadvantages of installing solar panels on your home is that it can be expensive to move them, should you decide to move. The net metering agreement with your utility is fixed to the property. Also, finding someone to remove and reinstall your solar panels can be costly.

But, solar panels do add value to your home, so even if you do move, you are likely to see the value of your solar panels reflected in a higher sale price.

If you do plan on moving in the near future, it is best to purchase your solar panels outright. If you have a solar lease or you will need the new owner to take over your agreement, which can be a hassle.

Should you install solar panels?

The pros of solar energy greatly outweigh the cons. The cost to install solar is now cheaper than ever, the solar tax credit has been extended until 2035, and the price of electricity is only going to continue to rise. The sooner you make the switch to solar, the sooner you can start saving.

Re: Solar panels on our home

spumoni99 — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:01:31 GMT

We got ours installed in 2017, we are happy in the summer our AC bill was getting ridiculous, close to 500 some months.

Re: Solar panels on our home

SilleeMee — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:02:52 GMT

@SeaMaiden

This Energy dot gov info was very helpful for me when I was looking at solar options. Search:

Planning a Home Solar Electric System

https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/planning-home-solar-electric-system

Re: Solar panels on our home

SeaMaiden — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:04:30 GMT

@SilleeMee @spumoni99 @Porcelain Yes....lots of homework to do first so I know all the questions to ask!👍

Re: Solar panels on our home

Chi-town girl — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:10:19 GMT

You need to have an unobstructed location/roof (big trees, nearby big structures can be an issue) and ideally good 'southern' roof exposure. This is critical for optimal solar power.

The ideal location is a sufficient roof space that has unobstructed southern exposure. Otherwise they need to design a solar panel plan that requires additional panels that may require installation on several roof areas/planes of the home and might require some tilted panels in order for your solar system to generate the required wattage per your average usage.

It's a very customized situation. You definitely should secure 3 competitive bids. And also you should check to secure the tax rebates offered at the state and federal level. A good solar provider/company will assist you in the process. Be aware...there are shady companies. Make sure to check references

Re: Solar panels on our home

hckynutjohn — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:17:22 GMT

@SeaMaiden

With our beautiful, very old trees lining our property, we don't get enough sun to keep my tablet's battery charged. Spend a fortune for something that might save me a buck or 2?

I have always been a frugal guy and most of my purchases do something positive now, not "maybe" years from now after I am deceased.

If it's for you or others? Go for it, just keep my natural gas flowing.

hckynut 🇺🇸

Re: Solar panels on our home

Somertime — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:28:30 GMT

As mentioned up front costs are high even with Federal Tax credit and depending upon the square footage. What is happening in Florida is if you are selling back to FPL your unused power (net metering) some of the insurance companies are starting to drop you. This has started this year. So make sure you check with your insurance company regarding this.

Re: Solar panels on our home

CelticCrafter — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:38:46 GMT

What do you do if you need a new roof or a roof repaid.

I've also heard that they do not increase the value of the house.

Re: Solar panels on our home

Meowingkitty — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:45:01 GMT

If you need a new roof there's a cost to remove and reinstall. I live in Arizona where the sun shines just about every day and I wouldn't put them on my house. My electric bill for a 2100 sq ft 2 story house with no pool is $120 a month. On the budget plan so I pay the same every month. By the time I pay for the solar panels I wouldn't be saving much. I've heard it's not a selling point if you decide to sell.

Re: Solar panels on our home

Icegoddess — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 20:53:55 GMT

Too many mature trees for us unless a western view would work. I will say that western front of the house gets quite hot since the maple tree that blocked the sun died. But, I planted a Black Gum there in hopes of getting some relief, but maybe it wouldn't get tall enough to block panels on a 2nd floor roof. IDK.

One thing I've learned from friends who added solar to their house, if you tie into the Electric Co. grid, the Electric Co. gets control over it. So, if you have a major disaster, the Electrc Co. could decide that some other area has more need than you do and divert the power to them. That's why my friends decided not to tie into the grid.

Another thing I saw recently was that folks in some states who already had solar systems and were tied into the grid were now getting charged a minimum usage fee if their power bill didn't reach a certain amount each month.

Re: Solar panels on our home

CatsyCline — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 21:27:43 GMT

@SeaMaiden Where does your electric come from? DH's bro lives in Maryville WA. his energy costs are very low. Hydroelectric is your energy source?

The roof should be a new 30yr roof. Re-roofing with solar in place will incur BIG $$$$

We're in the Northeast, our energy costs are high. We DO NOT get a lot of sunny days for 8 months a year.

Buyer beware. Companies will try to sweeten their deals. We looked into solar, this past Spring. Our east facing roof could hold the panels. Our southfacing roof is the peak. The west facing roof was viable only as a fraction of the real esate.

We had a contract with a vendor, we had to sign first - that's how this particular company did their business model. The contract was voided per our discretion.

They did NOT supply all the facts. We checked with a 3rd party.

In order for solar to be a viable option we needed to remove trees on our property, many trees - AND trees needed to be removed on the abutter's properties. as you can imagine, case closed.

Also - again, in our case, when excess power is sold the utility, the utility buys at wholesale rate - 3 cents per kwh- if you have to use utilities' power you pay market rate - retail rate - fees, taxes.

A lot of former turf farms here are migrating to solar arrays. With widespread acreage, no physical impediments, solar is cost effective for the property owners.

Re: Solar panels on our home

shoesnbags — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 21:28:28 GMT

@Icegoddess wrote:
Too many mature trees for us unless a western view would work. I will say that western front of the house gets quite hot since the maple tree that blocked the sun died. But, I planted a Black Gum there in hopes of getting some relief, but maybe it wouldn't get tall enough to block panels on a 2nd floor roof. IDK.

One thing I've learned from friends who added solar to their house, if you tie into the Electric Co. grid, the Electric Co. gets control over it. So, if you have a major disaster, the Electrc Co. could decide that some other area has more need than you do and divert the power to them. That's why my friends decided not to tie into the grid.

Another thing I saw recently was that folks in some states who already had solar systems and were tied into the grid were now getting charged a minimum usage fee if their power bill didn't reach a certain amount each month.

Well, those are two major "cons" that sure weren't mentioned in the above articles! Thanks @Icegoddess .

Re: Solar panels on our home

deeva — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 21:32:41 GMT

We've had solar panels since our home was built in 2012. At that time, our builder was offering the panels as free upgrade. It didn't cost us anything.

Here in Arizona, the sun shines most days. So in the winter we have credits for the extra electricity produced and our electric bill is zero.
I couldn't imagine living in Arizona without solar panels.

We have a larger home with two ac units.

Re: Solar panels on our home

phoenixbrd — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 23:20:21 GMT

No thanks ....I'm not willing to give the electric company that amount of power.

Re: Solar panels on our home

tansy — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 21:50:07 GMT

Do you intend this to be your forever home, @SeaMaiden? I thought I remembered that you were looking into a more suitable home for aging. A few homes in my neighborhood have the panels. They don't seem to add significant value or to be a selling point.

In AZ the panels often were on a lease which the new owner was required to continue. That was a big no for me.

Re: Solar panels on our home

juanitalinda — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:14:33 GMT

@SeaMaiden

We live outside of Seattle and bought solar panels in 2015. I believe the cost has gone down since then and our state rebates have changed since then. However, we recouped all our costs by 2021. Of course, part of that is that we bought a Chevy Volt, a plug-in hybrid. All my local driving uses electricity generated from the panels, which means we have saved a lot of money in gasoline. What I love about the plug-in hybrid is that I still have a gasoline engine for those long trips over the pass.

We have 25 south-western facing solar panels installed by Sunergy. They were great.

At the time Washington state gave a rebate if you bought panels and inverters that were made in Washington. I do not know if that is still the case, but it might be worth looking into. Also, I believe panels are cheaper and more efficient since we purchased ours. (Edited to add: they are not currently offering the rebate program in Washington.)

As to trees, we love our trees!!! Sunergy has this great app that showed which trees would affect solar energy generation, based on time of day, latitude, and time of year. We decided to cut a few trees that were due south, and topped a few trees. I think that ran about $500 since we kept the wood for firewood and chipped the trees ourselves.

I do agree with the comments about a new roof. Our roof was 15 years old when we installed the panels. We will probably need to get a new roof in the next year or so, which will cost about $5500 to remove and reinstall the panels.

But, due to net metering, we have only paid the $7 or $8 dollars monthly connection fee to PSE, and all our electricity has been free. We heat the house with ductless heating/air.

Of course, the smoke from all those wildfires aren't helpful, and neither was the Snowpocalypse. But, in our situation, solar panels have been a wild success.

If your situation works out, solar panels can be very successful.

Re: Solar panels on our home

eadu4 — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:01:38 GMT

@SeaMaiden @over 22 years ago when we bought our home (recently sold), it had solar panels on the roof. We were the laughing stock of the HOA. They stuck out like a sore thumb and looked hideous on the roof. We also found out they didn't save us much in terms of our electric bill. Fast forward to needing to replace the roof, cost us $$$ to get them removed and disposed of. They also had caused damage to the roof which meant more $$ when installing the new roof. We are in Va. pretty good sun in the spring through the fall. Our experience is never again. If you like them, great but they were expensive junk for us.

Re: Solar panels on our home

Trailrun23 — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:16:59 GMT

DD and SIL are putting in solar panels in their very large home. They are also on the waiting list for a Tesla and a Rivian. It will be at least another hear for the Rivian. They had three Tesla panels just installed in the garage. They are only needing two roof panels. So far, the cost has been over $100K. Not many can afford the upfront cost. We don't have a roof that can be used for solar since it is so steeply pitched. They are in a new area out in the country so they are quite to talk of the neigjborhood. The Tesla panels were intalled early so their out of town family members can visit long enough to charge their Teslas to get back home. I feel like I am living in a parallel universe even writing this.

Re: Solar panels on our home

SeaMaiden — Sun, 18 Sep 2022 22:39:00 GMT

@Trailrun23 @eadu4 @juanitalinda @tansy @phoenixbrd and all of you!

Than you everyone who gave such great info! I have a lot to consider....after reading some of these posts....I will REALLY need to put A LOT of thought into this....I will not go into it ignorant or uninformed.

what seemed like a "good " idea....may be put on the back burner for a bit... you guys are AMAZING