topic Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt in Community Chat

I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

golding76 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:40:53 GMT

Sometimes, a letter that appears in Carolyn Hax's advice column hits me like a Mack truck. The one I read today flattened me. What do you think of the "fabulous" Mr. Productive?

Here is what he had to say in his letter to Ms. Hax:

Dear Carolyn: Before the pandemic, my wife and I — early 30s, both lawyers — had long working hours and frequent business travel, with weekends spent largely on family events and cultural activities. Once our respective firms sent us to work at home, we calculated we would gain 30-plus hours a week, even while still working full-time, due to not commuting, traveling or socializing in person. We promised each other we would use that time to be productive in ways our prior schedules did not permit.

I kept up my end of the bargain: In six months I read 25 biographies, developed decent conversational skills in two foreign languages, upped my running program to the point that I am marathon-ready, and started volunteering for voter registration advocacy, all while continuing to work full-time. My wife has done … not so much. She has been reading fantasy novels, occasionally watching a History Channel documentary, and has generally used the time to “unwind.”

I have confronted her several times, and she tells me she is “rejecting productivity culture” and doesn't feel like improving herself right now. We share housework, cooking, and other practical matters, and she does exercise, but I'm getting increasingly frustrated — disgusted, even — that she would waste this gift of free time just to watch TV and read books better suited for children.

I have asked her to get counseling and a depression evaluation, but she has refused and thinks she is conducting herself “fine.” Do you have any suggestions, other than divorce?

— Productive

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

QVCkitty1 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:44:25 GMT

I think he is looking for an excuse to leave.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

Kachina624 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:46:20 GMT

I think SHE, not HE, need to run, not walk, to engage a divorce attorney.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

Drythe — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:46:37 GMT

@golding76

Dear Productive,

Your ego the size of a semi. Lighten-up.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

golding76 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:47:25 GMT

Fantastic reply, Drythe! LOL

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

depglass — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:50:05 GMT

Depression evaluation for her? He should get an obsessive-compulsive evaluation. It gets worse as time goes on.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

GenXmuse — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:54:06 GMT

Sounds like he wants her to be productive in only things he approves of. What a control freak. He's the one that needs help.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

ScarletDove — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 17:56:17 GMT

Mr. Productive sounds very narcissistic, his way or the highway! Expectations, control, perhaps Mr Productive should consult a therapist, but first, WHAT did Carolyn Hax advise Mr Productive?

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

golding76 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:05:25 GMT

Thank you for asking, Scarlet Dove. Here is Ms. Hax's response in addition to those of some listeners/readers. Ms. Hax derives her column from conversations held online:

Productive: Divorce might be her best option, so do I have to leave it out? (Sorry, I left this out from the original posting of Mr. Productive's thoughts.)

Here is Carolyn's response:

Wow.

People are different. People can be different and still be good. People can be different and still be worthy. They can have different needs, want different things, set different goals, have different levels of energy and ambition, evolve in different ways. If you can't love and respect someone who made the perfectly valid decision to enjoy life, then maybe the most generous thing you can do is admit your heart isn't in the marriage anymore, and free you both to discuss what comes next.

Is anyone so awesome a catch that it would be worth not being loved or respected — worth arousing “disgust” — just to stay married?

Plus, if your definition of “improving” oneself didn’t include rest and juicy novels, then our differences would be irreconcilable.

But I digress. She's not taking advantage of you, leaving an illness or bad habit unaddressed, or betraying you. She's working, doing her share of chores, taking care of herself. “Fine” sounds fine.

You, within your rigid ideas of a life worth living, just don't like her — that's what you're saying, to my ear. So what else am I supposed to suggest? Language tapes over your home's speakers, like heavy metal outside an embassy in Panama, to break her?

Readers' thoughts:

· “Just to read books better suited for children"? Holy cats!! Reading anything different from what she reads all day will be good for recharging and growth. Your way to “improve yourself” isn’t the same for your wife — nor should you be the one to decide how she uses this time.

· Something tells me that, pre-covid, Productivity Guy was super busy because he wanted to be, and his wife was super busy because she was forced to be.

· The contempt in that question is so palpable it’s tough to see them coming back from it.

· I suspect Productive doesn’t particularly like himself, either. That’s the toxicity of the cult of productivity. It convinces us we’re worthless if we’re not constantly checking items off a to-do list.

There was an update: divorce.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

occasionalrain — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:03:01 GMT

I'm thinking that he was born to a Tigar mother and his wife was not. They are mismatched and need to accept each other as they are or go their separate ways.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

Puppy Lips — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:03:05 GMT

I would divorce him in a New York minute.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

RollTide2008 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:06:53 GMT

This is why I’m single.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

golding76 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:11:08 GMT

FINAL UPDATE: Mr. Productive explains what followed Ms. Hax's advice.

Q: Productive Conversations

Hi Carolyn - I'm the lawyer-husband who wrote in some weeks ago about being frustrated that my wife (also a lawyer) wasn't taking better advantage of the extra time we had gained from not commuting and traveling for work to do more productive things, such as intellectual reading and more intensive exercise. We did subsequently attend a few sessions with a marriage counselor which were very helpful. In particular, we identified that a big part of the difference in how we wanted to spend leisure time was a direct result of the specific demands of our (paid) work. Although we are both lawyers, my work at the moment involves working on routine contracts, for the most part, that are not particularly intellectually challenging; on the other hand, hers involves clients who are much more emotionally demanding, plus high-stakes pro bono work with lifesaving implications - so she ends up feeling drained and wanting to take it easy during non-work time. Ultimately, we also figured out that I am just a person who likes to go on all cylinders all the time (which makes my current work all the more frustrating - although I'm glad to have it at a time when a lot of law firms have been doing layoffs), while she prefers cozy quiet time in her personal life. After the counseling sessions, we did decide to separate/divorce due to not really having compatible outlooks and priorities, but are doing so from a much warmer, friendlier place, without resentments and blame. At the core, we are just very different people, something that didn't really come to light while we were so, so busy finishing law school and singularly focused on building our careers, but the close quarters of the pandemic made it obvious that we would be happier going in different directions.

A: Carolyn Hax

Even an amicable divorce is grueling, so, I'm sorry you're facing that, though it sounds like the right thing for both of you. Thank you for the follow-up.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

SilleeMee — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:12:02 GMT

To me it's apparent that they never really knew each other until after the pandemic started which made them 'live' together...

....and like they say: "you never really know someone until your live with them."

I say it's time to rediscover each other, get to know them and if it doesn't work out well then start making plans to do something or someone else.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

scatcat — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:17:04 GMT

I already feel sorry for his future children

I bet the wife was 10x more successful than him and this was his way of feeding his ego, cutting her down while patting himself on the back

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

retiredatlast — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:17:55 GMT

Mr. Productive sounds just like my "ex". I am so thankful that our divorce happened 10 years ago and that I did not have to quarantine for all this time with him. Control freak narcissists do not have partners- they take hostages. Hope that guy's poor wife gets out while she can.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

Sooner — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:23:04 GMT

I have been happy with my spouse for more than 40 years because we are very much alike. We tend to be more like Mr. than Mrs. It's because we both love learning things so much.

Our first vacation was to the mountains. Never again. We were bored to pieces and neither of us wanted to relax on vacation. We went to historic places, bought books, talked to locals, sat with locals at restaurants when we could etc. No relaxing for us!!

We are a great match and would be bored with someone like Mrs. above. And Mrs. would be very annoyed by either of us telling her what we had read, suggesting good books, wanting to go see this and that, and in general what she probably would consider a pain and to her boring. Yes, Mr. is obnoxious, but not because he is a "doer." He's just obnoxious I think.

So marry someone you like, and like to talk to and are interested in, and you stand a great chance of being happy!

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

tiny 2 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:28:07 GMT

@Drythe wrote:
@golding76

Dear Productive,
Your ego the size of a semi. Lighten-up.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

icezeus — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:36:07 GMT

It's amazing to me how many couples discovered that they just did not like each other during COVID.

I am glad that they have both decided to go there separate ways. Perhaps he can get together with someone that shares the same goals and has his level of ambition, and his soon to be ex wife can get together with someone that is more her speed as well. Neither type is right or wrong, they just sound like they never should have gotten together to begin with.

Re: I Was Overwhelmed by the Arrogance and Contempt

Witchy Woman — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 19:26:35 GMT

@golding76

Without reading anything other than your post, I have to wonder what drew them together to begin with.

What did she see/feel that made her say, "this is the man for me."

Without even waiting for a response to that question I would offer this:

Run. Run screaming!

Get half of everything now and leave.