topic Re: Estate question - anyone know? in Community Chat

Estate question - anyone know?

hyacinth003 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:35:00 GMT

My late father-in-law's Estate is still not settled since 2011. My husband's brothers have done anything and everything to mess it up.

The new status is that the house was closed on about 5 weeks ago, and brother #4's attorney has the funds. Now, they are fighting over who pays legal fees. They don't care if my husband, who never had an attorney, pays for part of their fight. I am guessing around $75,000 in legal fees have been accrued. We were told this would be settled right after sale of house, but it's been 5 weeks and nothing.

Here's my question. Brother #1 has been in possession of my mother-in-law's jewelry that was supposed to be distributed among the 4 brothers. He had refused as he didn't like the concept of a totally blind drawing, and wanted each "brother" to pick a favorite piece first. Well, my husband and another brother aren't there to see it, so we felt it more fair for it to be totally blind (drawing lots). We were going to give it to my daughter anyway.

Brother #1 now claims he CANNOT FIND the jewelry. If he continues to claim this, how is he held responsible for it? No one could really say it is worth $100 or $100,000 since it's "missing."

The jewelry is a side issue, but this guy has gotten away with all these delays and splitting up of the family. Just one more thing.

Hyacinth

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

mgm2 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:38:41 GMT

All of the brothers will have to split the Attorney fees ------- the brother who ""misplaced"" the jewelry will have to be sued by the other brothers.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Sushismom — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:44:52 GMT

Having watched my father's family go through something similar with my grandfather's estate and seeing all the bad feelings that went along with it, my question would be is it worth fighting over? Is it worth all the aggravation? Is it worth the stress? Sometimes it's best to back out.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

hyacinth003 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:45:34 GMT

There's another option about the legal fees. Yes, they can all be ordered to pay.

Since brother #4 feels all the legal action was caused by the misdeeds of brother#1, they can go back to court and request that. So, they can request that #1 pay most or all of the legal fees.

Of course, he will refuse both sharing fees and paying them himself. So, there's really little other option at this point.

#1 has called my husband to ask him to join him and #3 to oust #4 as a Trustee and make him pay all his fees (which are the great majority).

All this is is more selfishness, delay, and money spending. No one has ever cared about the beneficiaries, which is the solemn job of the Trustees.

Hyacinth

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

hyacinth003 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:46:38 GMT

On 1/1/2014 Sushismom said:
Having watched my father's family go through something similar with my grandfather's estate and seeing all the bad feelings that went along with it, my question would be is it worth fighting over? Is it worth all the aggravation? Is it worth the stress? Sometimes it's best to back out.

I doubt anyone will bother in the end about the jewelry.

Brother #1 will get away with it in the end probably.

I will add that the family is totally split up now, so there's no saving it no matter what.

Hyacinth

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

mgm2 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:50:29 GMT

If this keeps up, the inheritance will be minimal because of all the infighting. Please look at "Sushimom' s advice...again.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

hyacinth003 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 01:58:48 GMT

On 1/1/2014 mgm2 said: If this keeps up, the inheritance will be minimal because of all the infighting. Please look at "Sushimom' s advice...again.

Doesn't matter what I want.

The two "trustees" are going to do what THEY want. That's what has been so hard about this situation - no control or real input.

Hyacinth

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Linders Back — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 02:08:55 GMT

I feel both sorry and angry when I read of this type of thing. This is a cautionary tale for all reading it. Hopefully many here will be able to learn from your family's mistakes.

All these things can and should be determined before the death of the loved one in question. It isn't really that difficult to put things into trusts or to write a will that says who gets what. This isn't just something that rich people need to do. Even the best of families can end up fighting over even the smallest estate.

Did your father in law died intestate or did he just not protect his assets from going into probate. (I can't understand how anyone old enough to have grown children and grandchildren would not have a will that took care of these things but that is water under the bridge).

If he did have a will, Did he name just 2 of his sons Trustees? Then unfortunately, they are in charge and legally get paid from the state for performing that service.

You say you don't know what the jewelry is worth but I can bet you Brother #1 does. The jewelry should have been appraised and photographed immediately (or better yet before) so all could see it and choose which items they wanted. Simple to do in this era of email.

I know this won't help the OP and for that I'm sorry. (Hopefully someone else will be able to). But, please let this be a lesson to others.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

KathyPet — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 02:23:10 GMT

hyacinth, I remember reading your prior posts about your brother in laws actions in this matter. If I recall one of the brothers who was also one of the estate's trustees did not want to sell your father in laws home and refused to provide a accounting for any of the rental income that the property had generated or disburse any of the income from the house rental to the beneficiaries of the estate. If I recall he wanted to purchase the house himself once the sale of the house was ordered and he wanted to buy it for substantially less than the market value. I can't believe that this is still dragging on.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Kathlen — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:04:47 GMT

In our case, attorney's fees were deducted first - and the remainder equally distributed.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

reiki604 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:18:20 GMT

On 1/1/2014 Kathleen said:
In our case, attorney's fees were deducted first - and the remainder equally distributed.

That's what I understand. All outstanding debts are paid from the estate and whatever remains is divided between the heirs. Unless there is proof of the jewelry, like an insurance policy or something, I think you're out of luck.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Anniecamp — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:18:26 GMT

The executor is required to pay all bills, including legal fees, before any type of distribution of funds from the estate. Only then can it be closed out.

If you, or any of the other siblings want to go to court regarding the rental income, and the documentation of it, that would be your choice. As long as you don't let it sound like too much infighting, etc., the judge may demand official accounting of what has financially gone on with that estate. It's illegal to do what your bil/s are doing.

As for the jewelry, unless you have documentation that it exists, that likely can't be resolved.

Hope this is over for you soon. I've read your posts before, and know it's been going on for a long time.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Qwackertoo — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 03:41:57 GMT

Very sad situation for the entire family. What a shameful way the brothers are acting in NOT honoring the memory of their father by fighting over his money & assets. They should be bending over backwards to try and be as fair as humanly possible to/with each other.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

mgm2 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:23:21 GMT

On 1/1/2014 Kathleen said:
In our case, attorney's fees were deducted first - and the remainder equally distributed.

The same in our case but this family squabble has been going on for YEARS, no one trusts anyone , including the Executors. The only way these brothers will get along is each one of them pays their share of all fees and receives equally in the distribution.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

glb613 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:34:09 GMT

On 1/1/2014 Kathleen said:
In our case, attorney's fees were deducted first - and the remainder equally distributed.

Same here. I was in charge of both my parents' estates. Unlike the OP's BIL, I paid all of the bills then split everything equally. The continued fighting is only going to spend what little there is left. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Jessa9 — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:43:13 GMT

When my mom died my oldest sister went to the house and took all my mom's jewelry...my dad was still alive. Three years later my dad died and she had all the locks in the house changed so my other brothers and sisters couldn't get in. There was nothing we could do ...my oldest brother and her were the executors of the will. There were a lot of hurt feelings . I forgave her but you never forget things like that.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

------ — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 14:52:17 GMT

On 1/2/2014 glb613 said:
On 1/1/2014 Kathleen said:
In our case, attorney's fees were deducted first - and the remainder equally distributed.

Same here. I was in charge of both my parents' estates. Unlike the OP's BIL, I paid all of the bills then split everything equally. Unless the estate is large, fighting what's he's done only spends what little you're are going to get. Greed is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason.

And the only person benefiting is the attorney.

I hope you get this sorted out hyacinth. But I agree with Sushismom. It may be best to walk away.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

lenapecci — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:13:03 GMT

My father passed away in November. I am the executor, we have an estate attorney. What I guess I do not understand is there no estate attorney for your father in law. Why do some of the brothers have their own attorneys?

My fathers will was my sister and I split all 50/50. The lawyer is there to make sure this happens.

From what I have seen happening in my situation is that death brings out the worst in people. My sister wants to keep nothing, she is of the mindset to sell everything. I on the other hand am having a hard time with that. I want memories of my parents.

We have had fights over certain items. It breaks my heart to see her behave this way. I would rather have my mom and dad here.

I hope it all will end for you soon, it is so stressful, and tears families apart.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

violann — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:42:41 GMT

An absolute unmitigated tragedy. No solutions. You poor husband has obviously suffered the most. DH and I are "lonely onlies" but have often shared the thought that being an only child can be harder, but in some ways MUCH easier. Just hoping that everything will soon at least be over for you and your family.

Re: Estate question - anyone know?

Financialgrl — Thu, 02 Jan 2014 17:40:04 GMT

I hate hearing this stuff particularly since I'm presently executor of my father's estate. My father was very upfront about what was in his will. Dementia set in about 8 years ago so we sold the house while he was alive and distributed any possessions at that time before he came to live with me. All monies from his home sale, future pension checks were all deposited into accounts with POD beneficiary instructions. Our intent was that should his care reach the point beyond our capabilities his money would be used for assisted living/nursing home care. His will stated, four children each 25%, clean and simple.

Dad died one year ago, I am the executor. I was in budget, sister is an accountant and niece is a CPA so any shenanigans or game playing couldn't happen, geez they'd have killed me. But I'm wondering, my state's instructions require inventory of his assets be reported to the courts within 4 months. After the one year mark (not later than 14 months) I have to prepare an accounting of dad's assets (using inventory figures) and listing all the expenses paid out and the balance at that time and that is due to the courts. That's either the final accounting or I indicate if more time is required. Because they are heirs, any of my sibs is entitled to a copy of the will, a copy of the inventory and a copy of the final accounting to the court but it has to be requested in writing. Have you done so?

Plain and simple, I hate greedy people. In my own case I'm retired, dad lived about 20 miles from me making all the executor duties much easier so I'm waiving my right to the executor fee. If other states were involved and a lot of traveling, it might be different but I found the duties not hard as much as just pretty darn time consuming, time I happened to have luckily had.