topic Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS.. in Community Chat

FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

furbabylover — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:17:56 GMT

I was so struck by yesterday's impassioned responses to the dilemma of outrageous vet bills for our babies that I had to repost a note I wrote yesterday. I am curious as to your response to my thoughts.

"This whole thread always comes back to the same thing: exorbitant vet bills. Why are we allowing a profession to get away with unbridled greed? Because they know they have us over a barrel. They know we adore our pets. If a vet is really good at his/her job, they don't have to run endless tests and procedures on your animal. How did vets in the past manage to take care of our animals without draining our bank accounts? I, and many, many people I know, have been victimized by vets who dragged out the suffering of our animals by "guilting" us into extensive, ultimately futile, procedures and treatments for our babies. My family endured a nightmare where a vet and his team convinced us they had to amputate the leg of one of our dogs in order to save his life. In fact it led to his further suffering and death. I scream in my head and cry every time I recall this. When I see a vet drive up to their practice in a new Mercedes, I think to myself, this is not a person drawn to the art of medicine, this is a person looking to get rich. What should we do? I believe we should take back authority over our animals and challenge all these tests and procedures they prescribe. Listen to yourself, your own instincts, your own common sense. Seek out vets with simpler agendas. They are out there, their offices may not be glitzy, but they have a genuine wish to help your animal."

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

NickNack — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:25:41 GMT

I have never once thought a Vet of mine was in it for money. Vets have the same amount of education as human doctors. They have office expenses and equipment expenses, as well as many other.

You pay less at your doctor's office because of insurance. I have pet insurance, which is expensive but helps tremendously. I know everything my Vet suggests is to get to the bottom of what's wrong with my pets. If I didn't trust them I would find another Vet that I did trust.. I want my Vets to have the ability to perform tests in their office without always sending me to a specialty Vet.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

vermint — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:31:39 GMT

@furbabylover I set in my mind a long time ago exactly how far I'd be willing to go to "save" one of my pets...and honestly, it's not very far. If a problem can be fixed by a single, fairly simple procedure or surgery, I might go for it (depending, of course, on the age/general health of the pet). I will not, however, put an animal through multiple surgeries, physical therapy, chemo or radiation. These are just examples for me.

I adore my 2 cats and my dog, and they are very well treated, but they are animals...they have no thoughts/plans for the future, and no fear of death. I will not put them through prolonged pain/suffering with procedures/treatments when they don't understand why it's being done.

Others won't agree with me, that is their choice.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

SeaMaiden — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:39:11 GMT

@vermint wrote:
@furbabylover I set in my mind a long time ago exactly how far I'd be willing to go to "save" one of my pets...and honestly, it's not very far. If a problem can be fixed by a single, fairly simple procedure or surgery, I might go for it (depending, of course, on the age/general health of the pet). I will not, however, put an animal through multiple surgeries, physical therapy, chemo or radiation. These are just examples for me.

I adore my 2 cats and my dog, and they are very well treated, but they are animals...they have no thoughts/plans for the future, and no fear of death. I will not put them through prolonged pain/suffering with procedures/treatments when they don't understand why it's being done.

Others won't agree with me, that is their choice.

@vermint I do agree with you. My golden Lola who I put to sleep last March had liver cancer... she was so sad and miserable with feeling bad.... I KNEW it would be kinder to let her go into a peaceful sleep than put her through anymore life saving(?) procedures. I had pet insurance and I could have spent a lot of money to maybe extend her life a short time... that is a big maybe. I loved her dearly for 10 wonderful years... but it is not kind or fair to try to keep your dog alive for you....

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

kaydee50 — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:42:19 GMT

@vermint Agree with you 100%. Someone said on the other thread that they were willing to sell their house to pay for their pets care. Really??? IMO, if animals could speak, I think they would said "let me go." In some instances, again IMO, it is a selfish decision on the part of the humans to make a pet undergo treatment and prolong their suffering.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

happycat — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:44:00 GMT

I hate what happened to you with and your dog that had the amputation. Its very sad indeed.

I have had 2 vets in the past that I felt like were in it for the money. I found a different vet with 2 vets that I trust.. Have used our present vet clinic for several years, I knew ours wasn't in it for the money when she asked to take my little jack russell who was having siezures home with her one afternoon. I went to get my little dog back the next day, I don't remember what the charge was, but it was very low.

My animals really like these 2 vets. Seeing as how I think animals are smarter than most people that means a lot to me. I think our animals can tell when ppl are full of ******-

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

Mominohio — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 20:16:59 GMT

I did not see the original thread about vet bills, but I will respond to this statement posted in this one.

There are unscrupulous people in every profession. Those that are incompetent, or greedy, and cause harm and heart ache. It comes with dealing with other humans.

But......if we want advanced medicine and treatments and cures in the veterinary world, it costs money, just like it does in the human world. The research, development, manufacture, and training to have all of today's 'miracles' at our disposal for our pets, isn't free. Those that spend nearly a decade post high school to educate and train to be in the medical profession, human or animal, deserve like everyone else to be compensated for their investments, knowledge, talent and skill.

In our area, many vets are still in single practice, some with just one other vet. The cost of running their businesses is like every other business as well. The cost of the equipment and technology to diagnosis and treat is high, they must charge for it.

As to how did the vets back in the day treated animals, well, they did it very basically, and animals suffered and died often before they would have today, because they didn't have the ability to see and treat what is done today with the advancements (costly ones at that).

Basic vet services are great when the pet is young and healthy, and that is what we do. We do a yearly, with all the vaccines and a good overall exam. When our pets get sick, we watch them closely and don't panic and run straight in, we adopt a watch and see approach. That alone has saved us a ton. Oftentimes the issue resolves itself, and we know when the time arrives to seek a professional.

Many of the 'basic' vets don't have what the big hospitals have as far as testing and treatments. We have always known that we have a set amount (based on where we were financially at the time in our lives) to spend on an animal once it is apparent it is truly 'sick'. If we have to then move on to the more expensive practice, we go in telling them where we are financially, and what can they tell us/treat for that amount, what is available beyond that, what is the prognosis, etc.

We love our animals, but we know we cannot go into excessive debt to keep them alive, especially as they get to be elderly. We do the best we can with what our resources are at the time. They don't have us over a barrel. Yes, we love our pets, but we have always known we cannot jeopardize our financial security should their health come to be more than we can financially sustain. That number will be different for everyone, and vary at various times in one's life. But it is a reality that we deal with, know ahead of time, plan for, and resign ourselves to. It is what it is. We do what we can do, we will sacrifice, we will incur some debt in a bad situation, but we understand that as much as we love them, there are limits to what we can and will do.

I don't see the issue as always unbridled greed. I see it as good health care and treatment costs money. Yes, there are some vets out there that will be greedy. But people need to understand that when they take on pets, they need to be prepared to make the hard decisions that could come with illness and injury, and part of that is the monetary cost of preserving/extending the pet's life, and possibly the dollar limit that might make it devastating to let them go. It's just part of the real world adult choices/decisions we face, and we can't always blame others as greedy because we aren't equipped to spend endlessly on medical treatment for a much beloved pet. It's just a financial reality.

My best practice advice is choose a good basic vet that is 'reasonable' in price, and keep up on the important basics (vaccines, yearly visits, good nutrition, good daily care), and when something comes up that is extraordinary or advanced, know before it comes where you are financially, and what you realistically can do, then proceed through the process of choosing a more advanced clinic and go from there.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

eddyandme — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:45:53 GMT

Imho anything qualified "medical" is blatantly overpriced! And they know they're gonna get it 'cause when love, caring, come into the situation we think with our hearts.

What should be required is that all practitioners have to submit all charges to a state's rate setting comission: hospitals must do this every year, and believe me you don't want to be the hospital that doesn't pass. Another thing is dentists: they have two sets of fees - if you don't have insurance you make up for what the insurance companies refuse (and rightly so, imo) to pay as an acceptable charge.

Today, I just paid $70 for ninety pain relief pills! They are for my furbaby. Had they been for me, the cost would have been minimal. Again, someone's gotta make up the ridiculous big-pharma charges and Eddy's insurance doesn't cover it.

I don't think we should look for the least costly vet, physician, meds, etc. Providers should all charge fairly; unfortunately, government involvement would be required.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

SeaMaiden — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:46:03 GMT

@happycat wrote:
I hate what happened to you with and your dog that had the amputation. Its very sad indeed.
I have had 2 vets in the past that I felt like were in it for the money. I found a different vet with 2 vets that I trust.. Have used our present vet clinic for several years, I knew ours wasn't in it for the money when she asked to take my little jack russell who was having siezures home with her one afternoon. I went to get my little dog back the next day, I don't remember what the charge was, but it was very low.
My animals really like these 2 vets. Seeing as how I think animals are smarter than most people that means a lot to me. I think our animals can tell when ppl are full of ******-

there are both good and bad vets... like people doctors... not all vets are bad...

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

KingstonsMom — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 17:52:23 GMT

@NickNack

I totally agree, I have never had the experience like the OP is suggesting, with any of my Vets.

Years ago, pets didn't get cancer, etc. like they do now, environment related possibly?

I'm 67 and back in my younger days, we only took our dogs to the vet once a year for rabies and screening blood work, unless in the event of an injury.

And they all lived until or past their expected lifespan, although age brought on some arthritis issues.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

Suzeecat — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:08:52 GMT

I think that most vets care more about our pets' good health than their income, yet they do have every right to earn a decent living doing what they spent lots of time money to be trained for. Just like health care for humans, advances in technology has resulted in more expensive treatments. It's the individual owner's decision to either get pet insurance or not, and what tests and treatments they wish to pursue. Our pets are like children, there is no easy way to separate emotions from these decisions. Years ago I had two sick cats that i could not afford treatment for and to this day I have guilt about having to put them down possibly sooner than necessary simply because I couldn't afford their care. This is the reason I will never own another pet. I would be a great mom, would love them dearly, but I cannot afford a sick pet and it's the responsible thing for me to do to make a decision to not take on something that i can't afford.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

noodleann — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:13:00 GMT

I have a primary vet that's 30 minutes away, an emergency/specialist vet service that's an hour away, and a local backup vet and local emergency care, if I choose to use them. I have used oncology services three hours away in the past.

My experiences have been good to stellar. If they're not good, I go elsewhere or request the vet/tech that's worked well with the animal and with me in the past.

I'm sorry for people who've had negative experiences with their vets/services. I found the emergency/specialist when I learned that the primary vet couldn't help with a difficult situation. I researched other vets online, cleared the new vet service with the primary vet, and got the care my animals required at the time. It was expensive, but the treatment was first-class. The communication between the emergency/specialist and my primary vet was excellent, a key factor in keeping transitions going smoothly.

I also do a lot of research on possible and confirmed problems, so I'm less likely to be blindsided by a treatment suggestion or judgment on prognosis. I'm sure my cats would be glued to the internet if they could master English and grow thumbs, but until that happens, I'm their point person. No victims here!

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

rescuedogmom4 — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:18:39 GMT

I feel incredibly LUCKY that veterinary medicine has come as far as it has over the years. I got many more years with many of my fur-babies because ot the miracles these doctors have worked! Medicine costs money. My husband and I have health coverage through work, so I don't have to see most of the bills--so THANKFUL for that! My fur-kids don't have health insurance, so I have to pay the bills, which is something that I signed up to do when I adopted them. Also, the doctors who treat my pets don't drive fancy cars--they do it because they clearly love animals.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

furbabylover — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:24:21 GMT

@KingstonsMom You bring up a good point about the cancer in our animals and the environment. There are numerous studies connecting this cancer rate to the commercial pet food we feed them. If you dare, take a look at the recall reports on American pet food manufacturers. What they find in their products is astounding. I know that many of us don't have the time or means to provide fresh food for our pets, and we have been hammered with the propaganda from these companies that we should NOT feed our pets human food, reinforced by vets who sell their products. Its amazing dogs and cats survived thousands of years without commercial food. There are reputable companies out there, you just have to do your homework to find them. A hopeful study suggests that just giving your pet (safe-for-pets) fresh fruit and veggies along with their regular food cuts down on illness.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

spent2much — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:32:42 GMT

I'm not going to comment on the original post. What I do feel obligated to mention is that pets are being damaged, and sometimes die, from over vaccination. Many vaccines provide immunity for several years, if not LIFE. There is no need to vaccinate a pet that is already immune. In fact, it is dangerous. A simple blood test, called a titer, can be taken to prove immunity. If you are concerned about this, or maybe you're like me who just realized this a few years ago, please check out protectthepets dot com. Dr. John Robb has worked tirelessly to prevent over vaccination. P l e a s e ... for the sake of your pet.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

beach-mom — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:32:50 GMT

@furbabylover - I wish you had experienced a different outcome for your pup.

As the wife of a caring veterinarian, I can tell you most go into the profession because of their love of animals and not for the money they make. DH hurt every time he had to help someone let one of their four-legged children go. He has seen EVERYTHING. And I also have seen a lot. (I should write a book- LOL!)

Things are a lot different these days, as I posted in the other thread (post #16).

The veterinarians who drive expensive cars probably make that a priority, just as a teacher or anyone in any other profession would. The ones I've known through the years mostly drive trucks or SUV's.

You can still find private practices that are independent. They will take care of you. And if you're concerned about anything, always put your mind at ease by getting a second opinion!

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

Mom2Dogs — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 18:40:01 GMT

We thoroughly LOVE our dog, BUT she is a pet and we will care for her within reason...financially if ill but, we are not going to spend thousands of dollars for her care.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

KingstonsMom — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:05:15 GMT

@furbabylover

I cook the majority of Kingston's (my avatar) food myself with good ingredients for a dog..

I agree about the commercial dry dog foods, I got so tired of foods being recalled, that I did an extensive search of 'commercial' dry foods.

For kibble to add to his meals, I learned about Fromm; https://www.frommfamily.com/

Made in the USA, all ingredients 'sourced' in the USA and they're been in business since 1904 with NO recalls.

If you google their name, there are many excellent reviews, including Consumer Reports and many dog food review sites.

BTW.....they make cat food too!

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

Anonymous032819 — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:00:47 GMT

@Mom2Dogs wrote:
We thoroughly LOVE our dog, BUT she is a pet and we will care for her within reason...financially if ill but, we are not going to spend thousands of dollars for her care.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

That is exactly how I feel for my cats.

And that doesn't make us "bad" people.

Re: FURTHER TO VET BILLS..

KingstonsMom — Thu, 07 Jan 2021 19:03:34 GMT

@Mom2Dogs wrote:
We thoroughly LOVE our dog, BUT she is a pet and we will care for her within reason...financially if ill but, we are not going to spend thousands of dollars for her care.

@Mom2Dogs

Sorry, my dogs,cats and other animals that I've had in my life are not just a 'pet', they're a family member.

I understand that some may have financial reasons to feel the way you do, but that's just not me.

I have spent thousands to save a pet that meant that much to me and have no regrets, especially after they lived a long and healthy life after the medical (yet expensive) intervention.